What is the purspose of pre-tinned wire?

[Chris Street]

You don't understand what "oxidation" means.

I most assuredly do as I pointed out in the post above. The suplhide is
an oxidation product but it is most assuredly not an oxide as has been
claimed several times.

 

[Jamie]

I don't know Mr Haney or you but AFAICT he seems to write sensibly,
accurately and with some knowledge of what he is discussing. I'm
prepared to accept what he writes.

Could you cut the noise down please. Thank you.

Ou, bad move!

http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

 

[Jamie]

Duh. That's what I said. "especially when it is inside teflon".



The FLUX 'cleans the wire' you dippy ditz.

The cases notes are where NORMAL soldering processes do NOT yield
favorable results.

It is pretty obvious for anyone with an inkling of common sense.

Well I suppose if you were to use the wire with in a normal time from
the manufacturing date, you wouldn't need to use that flux would ya?


http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

 

[Mr. Haney]

Well I suppose if you were to use the wire with in a normal time from
the manufacturing date, you wouldn't need to use that flux would ya?

Solder comes with flux, you total idiot, and solder processes all use
flux as well.

That borders on being one of the most stupid posts you have ever made,
Jamie.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Tyrorex" <[email protected]

** Obvious sock puppet.

I don't know Mr Haney or you but AFAICT he seems to write sensibly,
accurately and with some knowledge of what he is discussing.

** You need to see a shrink - ASAP.

Cos you are totally NUTS.

Look up " silver tarnish " on Google for ****'s sake.




...... Phil

 

[Ross Herbert]

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 22:54:38 GMT, Howard Eisenhauer

:
:>Some insulated multistrnd copper wire is pre-tinned and a lot is
:>not.
:>
:>What is the purpose of pre-tinned wire? As far as I can see the
:>advantage is that the copper core doesn't oxidise which means the
:>wire can be soldered or fixed to a terminate with only minimal
:>cleaning.
:>
:>Sounds like a good thing to me, so why isn't almost all wire pre-
:>tinned?
:>
:>Is cost really so different?
:>
:>Does the tinning-coating replace where copper would have been in
:>the overall wire and tinning is of higher reistence?
:>
:>Is flexibility affected?
:
:
:In the telecom industry the rule is "silver on silver". Back in the
:bad old days there could be problems with diss-simmilar metals
:corroding & creating noise on circuits both from rectification effects
:& from current punch-through across the junction when voltage was
:applied to the circuit, i.e. "going off-hook". In some cases
:"sealing" current was (& still is) applied on a constant basis to
:circuits that didn't require it for operation, just to keep junction
:corrosion from getting bothersome.
:
:Although not part of the original Bellcore standard I've actually
:speced tinned wire for T1 circuits going into areas I knew were going
:going to be climate controlled.
:
:H.


That is correct. A typical manufacturer of internal switchboard cable
application chart shows that their Switchboard 100 product (equivalent to what
most western countries would use for internal cabling) is suitable for T1 and
DS1 applications.
http://www.superioressex.com/upload..._Information/tn33_centoffice_select_chart.pdf

 

[krw]

---
What does that crap have to do with anything?

The point is that the tarnish found on silver, including the plating on
silver plated copper wire isn't, as you claimed, silver oxide, it's
silver sulfide.

Which makes you the dope, yes?

No, oxide/sulfide is not what makes DimBulb a dope.

<snip>

 

[Carlo]

---
What does that crap have to do with anything?

The point is that the tarnish found on silver, including the
plating on silver plated copper wire isn't, as you claimed,
silver oxide, it's silver sulfide.

Which makes you the dope, yes?

From:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver

<Quote>

Silver metal does not react with sulfuric acid, which is used
in jewellery-making to clean and remove copper oxide firescale
from silver articles after silver soldering or annealing.
However, silver reacts readily with sulfur or hydrogen sulfide
H2S to produce silver sulfide, a dark-coloured compound
familiar as the tarnish on silver coins and other objects.
Silver sulfide also forms silver whiskers when silver
electrical contacts are used in an atmosphere rich in hydrogen
sulfide.

.
.

Silver oxide (Ag2O) produced when silver nitrate solutions are
treated with a base, is used as a positive electrode (cathode)
in watch (battery) batteries.

<End quote>

JF

That showed him up. Hee hee! You owned him.

 

[Carlo]

Cinch type terminations is the proper term, Chocstraw
retard.

Also a soldered wire does NOT get retained better in such a
connection.

The solder "creeps" away and the connection becomes loose.

http://www.materialseducation.org/docs/new2007/15-Bunnell.pdf

http://www.msm.cam.ac.uk/phase-trans/2004/creep.practical.pdf

Those references to CHILDREN'S experiments!!!

Children are not qualified engineers.

Is this a sign of desperation?

 

[Carlo]

Solder comes with flux, you total idiot, and solder processes
all use flux as well.

That borders on being one of the most stupid posts you have
ever made,
Jamie.

Not sure I understand why this exchange got so lively. You wrote
this:

"Tin plated wire is notorious for NOT taking solder, especially
when it is inside teflon."

Assuming you wrote what you meant to write then you said "tin
plated wire is notorious for NOT taking solder". You also added
that furthermore it was even harder still to solder tin plated
wire when it was inside Teflon insulation.

Aren't some posters responding to your clearly made statement
that

"Tin plated wire is notorious for NOT taking solder"

because it probably seems a bit unexpected to them? I have to
confess it does a bit unexpected to me too. It doesn't relate to
my experience or known facts.

The Teflon insulation you mention is an additional observation
which you offer as an extra fact but it's not particularly
relevant to the OP's question.

Seems to me this discussion is based around your statement:

"Tin plated wire is notorious for NOT taking solder"

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

Those references to CHILDREN'S experiments!!!

Children are not qualified engineers.

Is this a sign of desperation?

You are so retarded that you do not even know what solder creep is,
much less how it relates to failure modes in cinched connection
terminations.

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

Not sure I understand why this exchange got so lively. You wrote
this:

"Tin plated wire is notorious for NOT taking solder, especially
when it is inside teflon."

Assuming you wrote what you meant to write then you said "tin
plated wire is notorious for NOT taking solder". You also added
that furthermore it was even harder still to solder tin plated
wire when it was inside Teflon insulation.

Aren't some posters responding to your clearly made statement
that

"Tin plated wire is notorious for NOT taking solder"

because it probably seems a bit unexpected to them? I have to
confess it does a bit unexpected to me too. It doesn't relate to
my experience or known facts.

The Teflon insulation you mention is an additional observation
which you offer as an extra fact but it's not particularly
relevant to the OP's question.

Seems to me this discussion is based around your statement:

"Tin plated wire is notorious for NOT taking solder"

If you've ever worked with both SPC and TPC, you would know that SPC
takes solder an order of magnitude better than TPC does.

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

Hmmm then Rust is actually Iron Sulfide?

I thought a high concentration of Sulfur had to be present for
sulfidation to occur.?????????????????????????????????

You all also seem to miss the 'ide' part of all this. It may not be
"Silver Oxide"itself, but even the 'tarnish' that is based on grabbing
sulfur molecules out of the air, is still an oxidation process.

Sulf-IDE

 

[FatBytestard]

ARCHIMEDES' IS A DESPERATE CHILD WITH CRIMINAL TENDENCIES
THE SAD MELANCHOLIC OFF SPRING OF A CROSS BETWEEN HUMAN AND FAIRY TALE
TROLL I CAN'T IMAGINE WHAT HIS PARENTS WERE THINKINGAT THE TIME NOR DO
I THINK I WANT TO BUT THERE MUST BE A FILE A BOOK OR A FANTASY NOVEL
SOMEWHERE THAT EXPLAINS IT

I AM PROTEUS

Go back to your gay porn, Roy.

 

[Chris Street]

You all also seem to miss the 'ide' part of all this. It may not be
"Silver Oxide"itself, but even the 'tarnish' that is based on grabbing
sulfur molecules out of the air, is still an oxidation process.

Sulf-IDE

I hadn't missed that at all as I pointed out in the first post I made it
is a redox reaction. However oxidation products are not always oxides -
burn a jet of chlorine gas in a hydrogen atmopshere and chlorine is
reduced, hydrogen is oxidised, the oxidation product is hydrochloric
acid and no oxygen or oxide is to be found....

 

[Howard Eisenhauer]

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 22:54:38 GMT, Howard Eisenhauer

:
:>Some insulated multistrnd copper wire is pre-tinned and a lot is
:>not.
:>
:>What is the purpose of pre-tinned wire? As far as I can see the
:>advantage is that the copper core doesn't oxidise which means the
:>wire can be soldered or fixed to a terminate with only minimal
:>cleaning.
:>
:>Sounds like a good thing to me, so why isn't almost all wire pre-
:>tinned?
:>
:>Is cost really so different?
:>
:>Does the tinning-coating replace where copper would have been in
:>the overall wire and tinning is of higher reistence?
:>
:>Is flexibility affected?
:
:
:In the telecom industry the rule is "silver on silver". Back in the
:bad old days there could be problems with diss-simmilar metals
:corroding & creating noise on circuits both from rectification effects
:& from current punch-through across the junction when voltage was
:applied to the circuit, i.e. "going off-hook". In some cases
:"sealing" current was (& still is) applied on a constant basis to
:circuits that didn't require it for operation, just to keep junction
:corrosion from getting bothersome.
:
:Although not part of the original Bellcore standard I've actually
:speced tinned wire for T1 circuits going into areas I knew were going
:going to be climate controlled.
:
:H.

Ooops- typo, I meant to say I spec'd tinned wire for areas I knew
were *not* to be climate controlled.

More specificly DSX panels mounted outside in un-heated, not
particularly weatherproof, cabinets.

H.

 

[Mr. Haney]

Its the 40 + generations of inbreeding. His family tree is just a
rotting stump.

Sad that the history of Alzheimer's and senility that runs in your
family is also obviously taking your mind as well.

Well, maybe it's not so sad after all...

 

[UpGrade]

Sad that the history of Alzheimer's and senility that runs in your
family is also obviously taking your mind as well.

Well, maybe it's not so sad after all...

Soon enough, he'll catch up to Thompson.

 

[StickThatInYourPipeAndSmokeIt]

Michael A. Terrell wrote:



<snip>

I have no knowledge of these particular posters or their ISPs but I caution
readers not to assume that identical NNTP-Posting-Host addresses automatically
mean the same user; some small ISPs assign RFC 1918 addresses to clients
and have a small block of public IPs exposed to the 'Net. Also, a public
access machine or a shared machine in a residence may conceivably be used
by different posters. Combining the weight of circumstantial evidence such as
posting IP address, user agent, bang path, etc. together with an analysis
of lexical style may result in a more cogent argument for a poster's identity.

Michael

Yes and unless and until a crime has been committed, which it hasn't,
you can all **** off and die.

 

[Chris Street]

The post to which I now devoutly wish I had left alone had referred to
Silver Oxide., and that's what I was trying to correct.

If there's a verb to use to refer specifically to turning an element
into its oxide, to eliminate confusion with the generalized oxidation
process, please let me know what it is

Combustion is probably the closest you are going to get. Oxidation is
generally associated with a loss of electrons, you could even argue that
something like a lewis acid and base is a redox reaction...