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What's inside an analog 4-quadrant multiplier?

S

Stephan Goldstein

Jan 1, 1970
0
If you can, I would advise doing the math in software. Log amps are
a continual sore spot in the equipment that uses them.

I looked around in my files yesterday and couldn't find anything specific
to the innards of the AD633. But the basic principles of a 4-quadrant
multiplier are in ADI's _Nonlinear Circuits Handbook_ -- basically, make
two 2-quadrant multipliers and tie them together. It's a little more than
this, of course, but that's the general idea.

These multipliers are translinear circuits, not logarithmic ones, so the
thermal issues that always arise with loggers are not a problem.

Steve
 
D

Don Lancaster

Jan 1, 1970
0
Smoke.

Let the smoke out and they will not work any more.


--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
voice: (928)428-4073 email: [email protected]

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com
 
R

Robert Baer

Jan 1, 1970
0
Stephan said:
I looked around in my files yesterday and couldn't find anything specific
to the innards of the AD633. But the basic principles of a 4-quadrant
multiplier are in ADI's _Nonlinear Circuits Handbook_ -- basically, make
two 2-quadrant multipliers and tie them together. It's a little more than
this, of course, but that's the general idea.

These multipliers are translinear circuits, not logarithmic ones, so the
thermal issues that always arise with loggers are not a problem.

Steve

If one designs those loggers properly, there will be no thermal
issues.
 
W

Winfield Hill

Jan 1, 1970
0
Stephan Goldstein wrote...
I looked around in my files yesterday and couldn't find anything
specific to the innards of the AD633. But the basic principles of
a 4-quadrant multiplier are in ADI's _Nonlinear Circuits Handbook_
-- basically, make two 2-quadrant multipliers and tie them together.
It's a little more than this, of course, but that's the general idea.

These multipliers are translinear circuits, not logarithmic ones, so
the thermal issues that always arise with loggers are not a problem.

There's lots of good detail in Barrie Gilbert's patents, including
his very effective linearizer secrets, with schematics and full math.

4,156,283 - Multiplier Circuit
4,586,155 - High-Accuracy Four-Quadrant Multiplier Which is
Capable of Four-Quadrant Division
6,074,082 - Single-Supply Analog Multiplier

Another good info source is Barrie's two lengthy chapters in the book,
"Analogue IC Design: The Current-Mode Approach," edited by C. Toumazou.
 
W

Winfield Hill

Jan 1, 1970
0
Winfield Hill wrote...
Stephan Goldstein wrote...

There's lots of good detail in Barrie Gilbert's patents, including
his very effective linearizer secrets, with schematics and full math.

4,156,283 - Multiplier Circuit
4,586,155 - High-Accuracy Four-Quadrant Multiplier Which is
Capable of Four-Quadrant Division
6,074,082 - Single-Supply Analog Multiplier

Another good info source is Barrie's two lengthy chapters in the book,
"Analogue IC Design: The Current-Mode Approach," edited by C. Toumazou.

And Barrie's original 1970 patent (continuation of a Jan 1968 filing)
on the subject (granted Sept, 1972 and assigned to Tektronix),

3,689,752 - Four-Quadrant Multiplier Circuit
 
S

Stephan Goldstein

Jan 1, 1970
0
Stephan Goldstein wrote...

There's lots of good detail in Barrie Gilbert's patents, including
his very effective linearizer secrets, with schematics and full math.

4,156,283 - Multiplier Circuit
4,586,155 - High-Accuracy Four-Quadrant Multiplier Which is
Capable of Four-Quadrant Division
6,074,082 - Single-Supply Analog Multiplier

Another good info source is Barrie's two lengthy chapters in the book,
"Analogue IC Design: The Current-Mode Approach," edited by C. Toumazou.

I was going to check the Tomazou book, but I loaned it to a colleague who
saw fit to read it at home :(

I did find a few pages that are OK for public consumption (i.e. not proprietary)
and have contacted Tim by email about faxing them. If anyone else is
interested please post here and I'll contact you. I don't have a scanner so
fax or mail are the only ways.

Steve
 
W

Winfield Hill

Jan 1, 1970
0
Stephan Goldstein wrote...
I was going to check the Tomazou book, but I loaned it to a colleague
who saw fit to read it at home :(

Get it back, or submit a bill. :>)
I did find a few pages that are OK for public consumption ...

Ahem, a few pages may not do it. Barrie wrote 81 pages in Chapter 2,
a translinear tutorial, and 58 pages in Chapter 6, a current-mirror
masterpiece. That's 139 world-class pages in this 640-page book, and
arguable the best pages. They are among his best writings, SFAICT.
 
T

Tim Shoppa

Jan 1, 1970
0
be harnessed to build a multiplication out of other
kinds of mathematical operations. There are _three_ classic ones.
Everybody (who is an analog hotshot anyway, or reads textbooks) knows
_two_ of them: the log-antilog identity, and the quarter-square
identity (given recently in this thread). What is the third?
Cheers -- Max

Nobody else has stepped up to bat, so I'm going to give my answer:
logical ANDing of PWM streams?

(I believe this is described in the MIT Radiation Lab series on
waveform operations.)

Tim.
 
K

Ken Smith

Jan 1, 1970
0
Nobody else has stepped up to bat, so I'm going to give my answer:
logical ANDing of PWM streams?

That either has to be disqualified as not really analog or we have to
increase the number of methods.

You can multiply with an MG set. On a generator RPM * FieldCurrent * K
gives the output voltage.

We may have to increase it anyway because you can do it electro-thermally.
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
That either has to be disqualified as not really analog or we have to
increase the number of methods.

You can multiply with an MG set. On a generator RPM * FieldCurrent * K
gives the output voltage.

We may have to increase it anyway because you can do it electro-thermally.


It should be possible to multiply using a couple of tungsten filaments
as the nonlinear elements.

Certainly CdSe photocells. Or mosfets in their saturation region.

Somebody (Beckman maybe) used to sell a polychrystaline MOV-sort of
resistor that had an exponential i/v curve, sold specifically for
analog computation.

John
 
K

Ken Smith

Jan 1, 1970
0
[...]
We may have to increase it anyway because you can do it electro-thermally.

It should be possible to multiply using a couple of tungsten filaments
as the nonlinear elements.

That is one of the many electro-thermal methods. You can also use the
fact that the power in a transistor is the product of voltage and current.
There are many thermistor methods too.
Certainly CdSe photocells. Or mosfets in their saturation region.

Somebody (Beckman maybe) used to sell a polychrystaline MOV-sort of
resistor that had an exponential i/v curve, sold specifically for
analog computation.

I think that we've got the number of methods up to something like 6 so
far.

Circuits involving SQUIDs produce outputs that are A*sin(B). If B is
small, this becomes A*B.

For small changes, the photcell signal in an atomic clock is the product
of the frequency offset and the lamp brightness.
 
T

Tim Shoppa

Jan 1, 1970
0
[Tungsten filaments, CdSe photocells, MOV resistor with exponential
curves]

Those are all interesting implementations, but they aren't a new
mathematical identity like Max was asking for. They're just varying
implementations of the exponent/logarithmic circuit.

One interesting thing about the CdSe photocells is that they're very
linear in electrical response while being nonlinear in optical
response. That has very real advantages in many applications.

Tim.
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
[Tungsten filaments, CdSe photocells, MOV resistor with exponential
curves]

Those are all interesting implementations, but they aren't a new
mathematical identity like Max was asking for. They're just varying
implementations of the exponent/logarithmic circuit.

One interesting thing about the CdSe photocells is that they're very
linear in electrical response while being nonlinear in optical
response. That has very real advantages in many applications.

Tim.

CdSe? I've heard of CdS, although I can recall, as a kid, dismantling
Selenium rectifiers and using a single plate as a photocell.

...Jim Thompson
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
[Tungsten filaments, CdSe photocells, MOV resistor with exponential
curves]

Those are all interesting implementations, but they aren't a new
mathematical identity like Max was asking for. They're just varying
implementations of the exponent/logarithmic circuit.

One interesting thing about the CdSe photocells is that they're very
linear in electrical response while being nonlinear in optical
response. That has very real advantages in many applications.

Tim.

CdSe? I've heard of CdS, although I can recall, as a kid, dismantling
Selenium rectifiers and using a single plate as a photocell.

...Jim Thompson


CdSe cells are similar to CdS but have faster response. They were once
popular as choppers, among other things. HP made a cool DC voltmeter
that went down to 1 mV full-scale (or 1 uV? I forget) that used them
to chop and demodulate, all clocked by a synchronous motor and a
spinning slotted disc in front of a lightbulb.

When *I* was a kid, I generally used photomultiplier tubes, or
germanium transistors with the tops of the cans cut off.

I made an IR detector once that used a flashlight reflector and a
black-painted germanium transistor, measuring just the Ge leakage
current. Now that I think about it, it probably accidentally used
thermal runaway as a positive-feedback gain enhancement mechanism. It
could easily detect the heat of your hand from six feet away.

John
 
J

John Popelish

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim said:
CdSe? I've heard of CdS, although I can recall, as a kid, dismantling
Selenium rectifiers and using a single plate as a photocell.

Cadmium selenide photocells are very similar to cadmium sulfide ones,
except that they have a larger infrared response. I can't remember if
they have a higher or lower frequency response.

This isn't a great reference, but it shows the spectral responses.
http://www.selcoproducts.com/CFM/photocells/photocell_PDF/Selco_PhotoCells_Construct.pdf
 
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