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115/230V voltage switch key for transformer?

K

krw

Jan 1, 1970
0
The only way to get one in would be to snip the end off a two-prong
Christmas extension code, solder it in and strap the whole kludge down
with cable ties. Any fire marshall would blow a gasket ;-)

Plus I think wall warts don't like to bake in there.

I was thinking about putting the wall wart elsewhere and run your
widget off DC.

How about using your 240V transformer (or dual primary in series) with
a secondary voltage high enough at 120V to run your switcher or
perhaps a buck-boost switcher. Let it run at 1/2V at 120V.
 
J

Jamie

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joerg said:
Very much against code, usually. Unless it's a wire jumper but my client
wants to avoid having to open the units every time an order comes in for
the "wrong" voltage.

The universal supplies are such a nice idea..

~100 .. 240 volts input. etc...

Some start as low as 24 volts AC/DC
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Fred said:
Joerg a écrit :
Fred Bartoli wrote:
[...]
Yeah, two things :-(

One, a primary side relay adds more than those 10 cents.

You said 1 buck is OK, not five.
I said one relay and 10c parts. I guess that would not make for 5 bucks...

Probably I could get a DPDT 250V-rated for under a buck but the cap
would need to become larger. Then I'd have to convince TUEV and other
guys that this is all nice and kosher.

The other is

But don't you have a bulk cap somewhere?
Just keep the relay in the same state until the bulk cap voltage is
over. And if you use a low voltage coil WRT to the nominal bulk cap
rail, then you have plenty brownout time before the relay decides to
switch back.

Yes, there is a cap but this all adds parts and stuffing costs. Pretty
soon you are over the one buck.

Oh, and it'll never switch on 240 mains, so in not 3rd world countries
we won't experience any failure at all.

Ahem ... I think it was in France where a TV team plugged in some Klieg
lights and then the wallpaper turned black from ceiling to wall outlet.
Turned out the circuits did not have any fuses and the custodian said
"That's normal around here".

Not yet, but I got some bit of interesting info I didn't think about,
like the one (it's all about ergonomic) that use some "linearizing
trick" to get a usable hand stroke. But I don't like the way they do it
(1000s turns coil).
Also the one you pointed me too was already preassembled. Just fit it in
the box and voilà. That's not what I was after.
But now I begin to feel I've the info I missed to design a good one, so
I might go that path.

Of course work will get in the way, but...

Don't know how old she is but it might be great to include your daughter
in the design process as well. Who knows, maybe she'll catch on to
engineering.
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Baron said:
Dunno if it helps, I've seen multi pole jumpers used for voltage
selection where the cap has multiple links in it.

Do you remember where or what brand it might have been?
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Rich said:
"Joig?" Or maybe "Yoig?"

No, the o-umlaut is like the first part of the French word for "maybe"
-> peut-etre

Technically one of the "e" needs a roof over there but my keyboard can't
do that.

If "Euler" is pronounced, "Oiler," then howcome "Euclid" isn't pronounced
"Oiclid?" ;-)

In German it is :)
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
krw said:
I was thinking about putting the wall wart elsewhere and run your
widget off DC.

How about using your 240V transformer (or dual primary in series) with
a secondary voltage high enough at 120V to run your switcher or
perhaps a buck-boost switcher. Let it run at 1/2V at 120V.


I'd love to but transformers operated at much lower than rated voltage
become "soft" and you can't get the rated wattage across.
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jamie said:
The universal supplies are such a nice idea..

~100 .. 240 volts input. etc...

Some start as low as 24 volts AC/DC

Yes, but when you inquire about the fine print it turns out they must be
derated at rather lowish temps, starting around 120F. That kind of rules
them out in this case.
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Phil said:
"Partially let go"? Given that the magnetic force drops very steeply as
the iron moves away from the pole piece, I'd have thought that a very
remote contingency...maybe it just moves too slowly for the arc to be
extinguished? Please expound.

It's an old lesson that I learned after building my first RF power
amplifiers (kilowatt-class). The T/R switch relay had to be controlled
with gusto when doing very fast morse code sequences where you get close
to realtime switching, else its contacts would erode rather fast. IIRC I
went through almost a dozen Potter&Brumfields over ten years back then.

A transformer presents to some (small) extent an inductive load which
likes to arc a bit on anything that mechanically opens and closes. So in
this case you'd need some circuitry that cuts the relay loose instantly,
like a threshold detector. It's all doable but at some point the costs
kind of add up.

The main problem with power relays is often when they want to come back
on. A contact that sluggishly leans into its counterpart can easily
cause a brief "bzzzt". If that happens a lot it's like a pinging engine,
it causes wear. This is why the HV guys spend so much effort to speed up
the action in their contactors. It's a whole science in itself. At the
power electrics institute of my university I had seen some really nifty
prototypes, such as contactors where a pressure capsule was used to give
them gusto. Every time they switched you heard a bang from that
pressure-assist mechanism, to the point where they required people to
wear ear protection.
 
B

Baron

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joerg said:
Do you remember where or what brand it might have been?

Sorry I don't really remember what kit it was in !

I do remember being curious enough to take the cap off to have a look
and put it back on the wrong way round, blowing the mains fuse. A 30mm
3amp T type.

Imagine 8 jumpers side by side in a single molding.
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Baron said:
Sorry I don't really remember what kit it was in !

I do remember being curious enough to take the cap off to have a look
and put it back on the wrong way round, blowing the mains fuse. A 30mm
3amp T type.

Imagine 8 jumpers side by side in a single molding.

That's exactly what I am looking for. But it's like a looking for a
needle in the hay stack with the chance that someone already took the
needle away :)
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
That's exactly what I am looking for. But it's like a looking for a needle
in the hay stack with the chance that someone already took the needle away
:)

Have the factory set the jumper, then stick one of those "warranty void if
this sticker is removed" stickers over it?

Good Luck!
Rich
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Rich said:
Have the factory set the jumper, then stick one of those "warranty void if
this sticker is removed" stickers over it?

And then some kid does it anyhow, it goes wrong, and plaintiff claims
the kid couldn't know because it wasn't printed on there in Swahili and
wants the jury to "award" a couple million :)
 
B

Baron

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joerg said:
That's exactly what I am looking for. But it's like a looking for a
needle in the hay stack with the chance that someone already took the
needle away :)

Oddly enough I was scrapping an old Packard Bell computer today and
noticed that the ISA modem had a very similar jumper system on it to
select USA/EU standard.
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Baron said:
Oddly enough I was scrapping an old Packard Bell computer today and
noticed that the ISA modem had a very similar jumper system on it to
select USA/EU standard.

Ok, but that's probably not UL/VDE approved for use on mains circuits
since an ISA modem gets its power from the bus.
 
B

Baron

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joerg said:
Ok, but that's probably not UL/VDE approved for use on mains circuits
since an ISA modem gets its power from the bus.

I agree its probably not. It just happens to use a very similar device.
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Baron said:
I agree its probably not. It just happens to use a very similar device.

This is the main issue. Sure, we could have Molex jumpers made but that
sort of stuff raises hackles at the agency compliance testing lab.
 
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