Can electricity flow through air w/out sparking?

[Bob Myers]

The sparks of a stun gun is another example of DC current traveling
through air.

But not without an arc (ionization), which was the whole
point in the first place.

You apparently can't even follow your own line of reasoning
(not surprising, since no once else can follow it either).

Bob M.

 

[Bob Myers]

The URL seems to be broken. What are you trying to tell me?

I think "Radium is a clueless troll" would sum it all up quite
nicely.

Bob M.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

The URL seems to be broken. What are you trying to tell me?

That isn't a URL, its a link to a USENET message.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Greg Hansen]

That isn't a URL, its a link to a USENET message.

Whatever it is, it's not doing me much good. When I click on it, my
browser tries to e-mail someone at 4ax.com, and when I paste it into the
URL field I'm told that 4ax.com is not found.

 

[Greg Hansen]

I think "Radium is a clueless troll" would sum it all up quite
nicely.

Bob M.

Clueless, maybe. But I think his questions are genuine, and I will
continue to assume they are until he proves me wrong to my satisfaction.

 

[Salmon Egg]

Gee. This radium guy is superb and manufacturing entropy.

 

[Radium]

But not without an arc (ionization), which was the whole
point in the first place.

Sorry. I was pointing out to another poster that DC current can flow
through air. That poster claimed that only AC can travel through air.

Is it possible for "arc" to have ionization thats small enough that it
does not glow?

If the extent if ionization is enough, then the arc becomes visible.
Below that, it is invisible but can it make sound?

Can diaphragm-less loudspeaker use low-level ionization to produce
sound w/out lighting the air?

 

[Angelo Campanella]

Sorry. I was pointing out to another poster that DC current can flow
through air. That poster claimed that only AC can travel through air.

Is it possible for "arc" to have ionization thats small enough that it
does not glow?

If the extent if ionization is enough, then the arc becomes visible.
Below that, it is invisible but can it make sound?

Can diaphragm-less loudspeaker use low-level ionization to produce
sound w/out lighting the air?

Plese keep basic electronic questions out of alt.sci.physics.acoustics..

Those are "off-topic" for acoustics.

Angelo Campanella

 

[Eeyore]

Sorry. I was pointing out to another poster that DC current can flow
through air.

Not without the very ionisation you're seeking to avoid.

That poster claimed that only AC can travel through air.
Correct.


Is it possible for "arc" to have ionization thats small enough that it
does not glow?

Small enough perhaps not to notice visually in normal lighting. But it'll be
there. Try turning the lights out !

Graham

 

[Radium]

Not without the very ionisation you're seeking to avoid.

In that case, AC current also requires ionization to flow through air.
Unless, of course, you're talking about electromagetic waves resulting
from the AC, but thats totally different.

Small enough perhaps not to notice visually in normal lighting. But it'll be
there. Try turning the lights out !

Graham

No. I am talking about a big fat "arc" whose power is low enough that
it does not light up at all. Can this arc still produce intelligible
sound?

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Whatever it is, it's not doing me much good. When I click on it, my
browser tries to e-mail someone at 4ax.com, and when I paste it into the
URL field I'm told that 4ax.com is not found.

It has to be a clickable link, and exist on your news server for it
to work. Apparently, its a link to this thread, and a message posted by
Alan B on Wed 8:05 PM

He also left the <> off the link.

<[email protected]>


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Alan B]

The URL seems to be broken. What are you trying to tell me?

Well, first, it's not an URL. Second, why doesn't broadcast radio and TV,
etc., "really matter?"

 

[Alan B]

It has to be a clickable link, and exist on your news server for it
to work. Apparently, its a link to this thread, and a message posted by
Alan B on Wed 8:05 PM

He also left the <> off the link.

<[email protected]>

Oh blast. Are the brackets necessary? I had no idea, sorry.

 

[Eeyore]

In that case, AC current also requires ionization to flow through air.

*Current* itself would of course. Power is another matter.

Unless, of course, you're talking about electromagetic waves resulting
from the AC, but thats totally different.

Not different at all. You have a naive simplisitic view of electricity. Faraday
was smarter ! I suggest you read his work.

No. I am talking about a big fat "arc" whose power is low enough that
it does not light up at all.

The light produced would simply be proportional to power. There is no threshold
involved.

Can this arc still produce intelligible sound?

If the arc / ionisation is of low power, so will the sound be.

Graham

 

[Mike Rieves]

Clueless, maybe. But I think his questions are genuine, and I will
continue to assume they are until he proves me wrong to my satisfaction.

A bit of research will prove beyond a doubt that he is indeed a troll.

 

[Fleetie]

Look. For once, Radium actually has a point.

It is possible for DC current to flow through air without
producing a spark. I have done it myself.

Take a variable (~30kV) DC high-voltage source. The one I used was valve-
powered, by the way! Take two needles and clamp them so that each
point points to the other needle's point, i.e. they're pointing at
each other. Set the points 1cm apart. Obviously, the needles will
not be electrically connected. Each needle is connected to one
output of the high voltage generator. Start the generator at a low
voltage. Crank it up, and before it does spark (experiment to find
the voltage at which it does, if you like (if you damage your generator
if/when it sparks, that's your problem, not mine)), there will be an
"ion wind" between the needles. Sometimes you can even hear it, or
see bits of dust in the air being blown around. Current is most definitely
flowing, yet there is no spark. There is ionisation, but no spark as such.
In the dark, you will likely see a blue glow at the needles' points. But it
is still not a spark, in that it does connect the needle points.
Turn the voltage down a little, and stick a candle flame between the
electrodes.

Have fun. Don't kill yourselves.


Martin

Disclaimer: This in no way endorses Radium's other stoopid questions.

 

[redbelly]

Clueless, maybe. But I think his questions are genuine, and I will
continue to assume they are until he proves me wrong to my satisfaction.

They might be genuine, but his followups imply that he is unwilling to
learn anything and is unable to have any kind of meaningful discourse
about technology. All attempts to point out his misconceptions are for
naught. Are you really going to spend your time trying to explain
things to him?

Mark

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Oh blast. Are the brackets necessary? I had no idea, sorry.

Only if the message id works. Most of the time it doesn't. You have
to be on the same news server for it to work. If I see one that is from
Earthlink, I can open it. Nothing else.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Bob Myers]

Not different at all. You have a naive simplisitic view of electricity.
Faraday
was smarter ! I suggest you read his work.

Let's face it, Pee-Wee Herman was smarter than Radium. Radium
reading Pee-Wee's collected works on the subject would no doubt
be of nearly equal benefit.

Bob M.

 

[Bob Myers]

Take a variable (~30kV) DC high-voltage source. The one I used was valve-
powered, by the way! Take two needles and clamp them so that each
point points to the other needle's point, i.e. they're pointing at
each other. Set the points 1cm apart. Obviously, the needles will
not be electrically connected. Each needle is connected to one
output of the high voltage generator. Start the generator at a low
voltage. Crank it up, and before it does spark (experiment to find
the voltage at which it does, if you like (if you damage your generator
if/when it sparks, that's your problem, not mine)), there will be an
"ion wind" between the needles. Sometimes you can even hear it, or
see bits of dust in the air being blown around. Current is most definitely
flowing, yet there is no spark. There is ionisation, but no spark as such.
In the dark, you will likely see a blue glow at the needles' points. But
it
is still not a spark, in that it does connect the needle points.
Turn the voltage down a little, and stick a candle flame between the
electrodes.

A matter of semantics. What do you consider to be the distinguishing
feature of a "spark," if not the glow? What you have in the above
is a "spark" or "arc" - it's just one that is too feeble to result in a
readily-visible ionization trail.

Bob M.