Can electricity flow through air w/out sparking?

[Alan B]

An inductor relies on reversable transformation between electrical
energy and magnetic energy, which are both distinguishable from each other
as forms of energy, and both of which are distinguishable from
electromagnetic radiation which is a distinguishable different form of
energy from electrical energy and magnetic energy.

All pretty much what I am getting at through my discourse. The basic
question is this: where do you draw the line between what is electricity
and what is not? Is it a subjective definition, or is it not?

 

[Alan B]

Voltage is electric potential. It means an electrical current could be
produced if there were charges in the region that were free to move.

So we get to the bottom line. What is the justification for your limited
definition of electricity? Charged particles are, but an electric
potential is not? Is that it? If that is the case, then I submit that you
are wrong.

 

[Alan B]

No, the fundamentals are not the same. A beam of electrons bends in a
magnetic field in accordance with Lorentz's force law, exerting a force
proportional to all three of charge, velocity, and magnetic field.
Light bends in a prism because of induced moments that create secondary
radiation which interfere with the incident light in accordance with the
superposition principle.

So are you saying that the superposition principle does not apply to
electricity?

 

[Alan B]

Try one on electrodynamics or optics.

That's quite funny. I quoted texts that cannot be separated from
electrical theory, and you apparently want me to read texts that can. That
is, if electrodynamics can be. Seriously, post something concrete that
shows you have any idea why current is electricity but voltage is not, as
you have now asserted.

 

[Greg Hansen]

So we get to the bottom line. What is the justification for your limited
definition of electricity? Charged particles are, but an electric
potential is not? Is that it? If that is the case, then I submit that you
are wrong.

Referring back to the original question,

"Can electricity flow through air w/out sparking?" - Radium

If you tell him that an electric potential can exist in the air, do you
think that is an answer to his question?

Maybe, to be more precise, he should have asked "Can an electrical
current flow through air w/out sparking?" But it seemed pretty clear
what he meant.

 

[Bob Myers]

So we get to the bottom line. What is the justification for your limited
definition of electricity? Charged particles are, but an electric
potential is not? Is that it? If that is the case, then I submit that
you
are wrong.

An electric potential, by itself, cannot provide energy to
a load. Nor can a stationary charged particle. "Electricity,"
in the broadest definition I can think of that still makes
practical sense, is the name given to any phenomenon
which transports energy through the transfer of
electrical charge between two physically-separate points.
A lightning bolt is therefore electricity. The "flow" of current
through a conductor is as well. An electromagnetic wave is
not, although it can certainly result in the generation of "electricity"
when received. And an electric or magnetic field, or just an
electric potential, is most certainly not "electricity" all by itself.

Bob M.

 

[Alan B]

And an electric or magnetic field, or just an
electric potential, is most certainly not "electricity" all by itself.

Well, I still see a qualifier ("all by itself") in the terminology. I
think it's overly pedantic to disqualify AM, FM and microwave from the use
of the term "electricity."

 

[Alan B]

Referring back to the original question,

"Can electricity flow through air w/out sparking?" - Radium

If you tell him that an electric potential can exist in the air, do you
think that is an answer to his question?

Maybe, to be more precise, he should have asked "Can an electrical
current flow through air w/out sparking?" But it seemed pretty clear
what he meant.

Well, you've taken it upon yourself to make several statements on behalf of
the OP, where I think it's clear I was being very sarcastic in my reply to
him, based on some previous experience. It was your words "electricity
doesn't flow through the air, not in any way that matters" that I was
responding to. My point is simply that I don't think the term
"electricity" is rightly confined to mean only the flow of charged bodies
through a wire.

 

[redbelly]

Well, I still see a qualifier ("all by itself") in the terminology. I
think it's overly pedantic to disqualify AM, FM and microwave from the use
of the term "electricity."

There are a lot of people who work with and study the type of
electricity that deals strictly with the flow of charges in circuits.
If you don't think "electricity" is the proper way to describe this
body of work, would you kindly suggest something that is?

Mark

 

[love&kisses]

A bit of research will prove beyond a doubt that he is indeed a troll.

A bit of research will also prove beyond doubt that you, Mike Rieves (aka
Porky) are a technical ignoramus and a contemptible piece of sociopathic
human waste who devoid of all commonly accepted moral and ethical
standards.



More information on this piece of pig shit can be found at:
http://www.azwebpages.com/porky.htm

 

[Bob Myers]

Well, I still see a qualifier ("all by itself") in the terminology. I
think it's overly pedantic to disqualify AM, FM and microwave from the use
of the term "electricity."

You're free to think that, of course, but in its
common usage we reserve the word "electricity"
for something that involves charges and a
conductive path. Broadening the definition of
a term such as that to include other phenomena
(which already have their own accepted labels)
seems pointless and confusing to me, with no
real benefit.

Bob M.

 

[Sharon Lourduraj]

hehe hehe ... Very interesting post. I actually read it all (91 posts?
i think). I don't know much about electricity, even though being in
first year university.

Just posting to make a correction: being vague a 'link' is an URL

Have to tell you Radium makes some good thinking; leads me to think if
all those who posted know what they are talking about -- because
everyone is correcting eachother!

All those who mock him...you guys need to chill, and answer properly of
the 91 posts half of them was mocking Radium's so pre-assumed
'stupidity.' You could have taught him all that there is need to know
in those posts.

So do a service to the public and teach him if he is wrong, and learn
something if you are wrong instead of correcting others.

Same goes to Radium -- stop being such a pain, make your answers and
questions clear. I know you have been polite in your posts. Good Stuff.

Now, if you are thinking about replying to this post don't even bother
unless it is positive.

Aa! Aa! No! don't touch that reply button!

 

[Eeyore]

Have to tell you Radium makes some good thinking;

'Radium' has never had a sensible thought in his entire life.

All those who mock him...you guys need to chill, and answer properly of
the 91 posts half of them was mocking Radium's so pre-assumed
'stupidity.' You could have taught him all that there is need to know
in those posts.

So do a service to the public and teach him if he is wrong.......

It's been tried. It's simply not possible.

Graham

 

[[email protected]]

Can electricity flow through air w/out sparking?

Yes. Tesla and Marconi did some interesting experiments with that
phenomenon.

 

[Radium]

Yes. Tesla and Marconi did some interesting experiments with that
phenomenon.

You mean they were able to pass electric current through air w/out
arcing, sparking, or coronal discharge?

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

hehe hehe ... Very interesting post. I actually read it all (91 posts?
i think). I don't know much about electricity, even though being in
first year university.

Just posting to make a correction: being vague a 'link' is an URL

Have to tell you Radium makes some good thinking; leads me to think if
all those who posted know what they are talking about -- because
everyone is correcting eachother!

All those who mock him...you guys need to chill, and answer properly of
the 91 posts half of them was mocking Radium's so pre-assumed
'stupidity.' You could have taught him all that there is need to know
in those posts.

So do a service to the public and teach him if he is wrong, and learn
something if you are wrong instead of correcting others.

Same goes to Radium -- stop being such a pain, make your answers and
questions clear. I know you have been polite in your posts. Good Stuff.

Now, if you are thinking about replying to this post don't even bother
unless it is positive.

Aa! Aa! No! don't touch that reply button!

You can't teach new things to old trolls.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Andrew Reilly]

You mean they were able to pass electric current through air w/out
arcing, sparking, or coronal discharge?

Yes. Tesla even had ideas about supplying power to machines that way.

In a more modern context, that's how RFID tags are powered: there's no
battery in the chip to drive the transmitter, the power for that is
extracted from the carrier of the probe signal.

Of course, all of this "electricity through the air" is AC, and is in
conjunction with associated magnetic fields.

Cheers,

 

[[email protected]]

You mean they were able to pass electric current through air w/out
arcing, sparking, or coronal discharge?

Not precisely. They were, however, able to create an electromagnetic
field, which varied at audio frequencies, which was able to pass through
the air without arcing, sparking or coronal discharge. Philo Farnsworth
built on their work.

 

[[email protected]]

Not precisely. They were, however, able to create an electromagnetic
field, which varied at audio frequencies, which was able to pass through
the air without arcing, sparking or coronal discharge. Philo Farnsworth
built on their work.

Didn't the Fane Ionophone used an AF modulated RF discharge to produce
a speaker with a very light "cone"? ISTR they needed the quartz-mounted
discharge electrode tips replacing every so often. Weren't they mainly
used as tweeters? Didn't they need careful shielding to avoid annoying
amounts of RFI? A similar "speaking spark" phenomenon is not unheard of
close to powerful MW and LW transmitters eg at joints in metal pipes,
fences, etc.

 

[Angelo Campanella]

HEY; look inside your xerox machine! the fine wires streching across the
width if the paper and drum by the paper and he drum. They do it neately
and consistently every day!

They transfer a charge through the air that lays down a charge onto the
drum surface which is then modulated by the light from the copy... the
net charge left picks up lampblack (toner) particles which are then
transferred to the paper having an opposite charge, also put there by
the other fine wire, then baked for presentation.

In being forced through the air, driven by several KV, the barging ions
also create ozone, which you can often smell around the machine; that
ozone not completely absorbed by an ozone filter in the cooling air path.

Angelo Campanella.