R
Robert Baer
- Jan 1, 1970
- 0
* Used the BabyBird (GooGull) and foundJeroen said:The digitizer would be one of these super-fast sampling Guzik boxes,
http://www.guzik.com/product_detail_DTR3000.asp; What a F'ing MESS of junk!
* Used the BabyBird (GooGull) and foundJeroen said:The digitizer would be one of these super-fast sampling Guzik boxes,
Hi Joerg, I found this online,It's fast, but AFAICT there ain't no ferrites that would even work at 3GHz.
Joerg said:Robert said:* ---^--- Decent idea; is there any experience as to the recovery time?
It's fast, but AFAICT there ain't no ferrites that would even work at
3GHz.
[...]
George said:Hi Joerg, I found this online,
http://www.coilcraft.com/ja4220.cfm
tm said:Joerg said:Robert said:Wond wrote:
On Wed, 16 Oct 2013 08:41:51 -0700, George Herold wrote:
51 AM, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
<snip>
How about a Nuvistor? Sounds like a job for a tube, for sure.
Haha! Here I was, looking for depletion mode MOSFETs to see if they
could be of any use here... Thanks for the hint. I'll check it out.
The beam transformer is a 'wall current monitor'. It doesn't really
have anything that looks like a winding.
Too bad. That two-winding hack would have been slick.
Hmm well I wonder if you could make a transformer such that it would
saturate with the big pulse... but let the little guys through...
Maybe
* ---^--- Decent idea; is there any experience as to the recovery time?
It's fast, but AFAICT there ain't no ferrites that would even work at
3GHz.
[...]
I have used ferrite isolators past X-Band.
Phil said:I think it's very descriptive and clear--similar to how people describe
the operation of CCDs. What don't you like about it?
Robert Baer said:* ---^--- Decent idea; is there any experience as to the recovery time?
Robert Baer said:* ---^--- Decent idea; is there any experience as to the recovery time?
Saturation doesn't work that way --[...]
I have another question for the OP:
If these signals are so immensely weak... how is it even possible for the
end purpose to care? How does it know? Surely there will always be some
leakage between buckets, and the goal is simply minimizing the amount, and
mitigating the error resulting therefrom?
Since this is physics we're talking, wouldn't it be possible to add two
"kickers" to the line, timed to the big pulse, which neatly remove the
leading and following buckets? [...]
Saturation doesn't work that way -- takes flux (volt seconds), not
voltage. At best, you could clamp the later part of the spike, once the
ferrite's charged up (so it tightens to a narrower pulse, but the peak
value remains). You still need freewheeling to discharge it, which means
as soon as that pulse is gone, you're going to have at least as big of a
tail (at minimum, the waveform will look like dV/dt with a peak voltage
similar to the original; at best, high frequencies will be attenuated in
the ferrite and it will relax slowly).
* Used the BabyBird (GooGull) and found
http://www.guzik.com/product_detail_DTR3000.asp; What a F'ing MESS of junk!
If you're going to use a bunch of brain dead metaphors like "spill"
and "bucket" in reference to electronic design then you get what you
deserve: dumb ideas.
I'm trying to find a way to detect tiny pulses following a very
large one. I have this beam current transformer sitting in a
particle accelerator, delivering 4ns, 600V pulses in response to
the passage of the main bunch of particles. This bunch fills
one of a continuous sequence of 'RF buckets', while the others
should be empty. In practice, a tiny bit of beam, on the order of
1e-5 times the main beam, leaks into adjacent buckets, and this
bothers the LHC.
If I attenuate down far enough to protect the digitizer's input,
there is no hope of seeing any of this tiny spill, so I must
clip the main pulse and spare the small stuff. The RF buckets
are at 80 MHz, so the clipper must recover fast. To preserve
the 3GHz bandwidth of the signal, it must be a low capacitance
device too. Small enough to hide it by necking down a 50 Ohm
stripline, for example.
I've dabbled a bit with various combinations of attenuators
and Schottky or ESD protection diodes in Spice, and it doesn't
look straight-forward. I'd be abusing the diodes badly, far
exceeding their maximum current. Beefier diodes are slow and
have too much capacitance.
Anyone here wants to share some wisdom?
Thanks,
Jeroen Belleman
I'm trying to find a way to detect tiny pulses following a very
large one. [....]
Anyone here wants to share some wisdom?
Thanks,
Jeroen Belleman
That in a nutshell is one of the basic pulse radar problems. Considering
the power levels you should look towards short range capable heavy radar
for typical schemes. Something like SPS-48 or SPS-51 radars might use.
?-)
I'm trying to find a way to detect tiny pulses following a very
large one. [....]
Anyone here wants to share some wisdom?
Thanks,
Jeroen Belleman
That in a nutshell is one of the basic pulse radar problems. Considering
the power levels you should look towards short range capable heavy radar
for typical schemes. Something like SPS-48 or SPS-51 radars might use.
?-)
Yes, except that the radar guys usually deal with comparatively
narrow bandwidths, which allows using tricks with lambda/4
transmission lines. I can't do that here.
Jeroen Belleman