Which is more economical - electric or natural gas water heater?

[Snit]

You are nit picking now!
With electric 100% goes to heat the water, with gas about 80% goes to heat
the water, and 20% of the heat goes out the chimney. both have heat loss
from the tank to the room. With a natural vent gas water heater you may have
a bit more loss from air constantly traveling up the chimney. Natural gas,
if available is generally cheaper than electric most everywhere, unless you
have off peak rates available.
Greg

He's right. All wires, relay contacts, circuit breakers or terminals
have resistances. Resistances imply heat generation. P=I^2*R

 

[Canfree]

100% efficient?? LOL

LOL ?
First I am referring to electrical heat witch IS 100%
but if you want to talk about electric water heaters they are also
100% during the period when heating is required and probably 70% when
air condition is used to remove the undesired heat from the premises.

 

[Canfree]

You mean it's WASTE efficiency is 100%. Electricity is a terribly
inefficient method to generate heat. -Dave

Dave

ALL electrical heaters are 100% efficient. There is no efficiency
difference between the many types of electric heaters.
Even if they are defective and produce some noise, that noise is
converted into heat.
As a noise generator the heater would be very inefficient but as a
heater, it is 100%

 

[Noon-Air]

Dave

ALL electrical heaters are 100% efficient. There is no efficiency
difference between the many types of electric heaters.
Even if they are defective and produce some noise, that noise is
converted into heat.
As a noise generator the heater would be very inefficient but as a
heater, it is 100%

"rated efficiency" doesn't mean a whole lot....
What *does* matter is the recovery rate, and the bottom line when you get
that utility bill at the end of the month.

 

[daestrom]

Unless he meant that the amount of power the end user gets compared to
losses in transmission and perhaps the combustion losses of burning a
fossil fuel to make steam, then all the heat lost condensing wet steam
back to water without co-generating.

No, he specificially said, "A LOT of energy is wasted in the conversion from electrical energy to heat energy." He did not mention converting heat
energy to electrical energy (yes, *that* is an inefficient process).

Converting electricity to heat is a 'walk in the park' and *very* efficient.
But it can be an expensive form of energy to use for creating low
temperature heat.

daestrom

 

[~^Johnny^~]

100% efficient?? LOL

average water heater operating cost in this area is roughly $30/mo on
electric, and less than $10 on natural gas.

Electricity is 100% efficient, once it gets into the appliance, but
that's not all there is to it. Ya' gotta think green. Even burning
natural gas in an 80% efficient furnace is more energy efficient
overall, than using 100% efficient resistive electric heat. In fact,
natural gas is just one of the fuels burned to generate electricity!
Oil, coal, and nuclear are others. None are 100% efficient. Even
if they were, transmission losses are usually greater than piping
losses with natural gas, since little of your power is locally
produced, even if you have a local plant large enough to produce it.
It's sold and traded between different electric companies, who
compete for lower rates. As little as 60% of the energy from the fuel
reaches the consumers.

Hydro and wind are exceptional, but there are still losses, and
operational expenses, even though there are no "fuel costs".
And there isn't enough hydro and wind power to go around.

 

[Oscar_Lives]

"rated efficiency" doesn't mean a whole lot....
What *does* matter is the recovery rate, and the bottom line when you get
that utility bill at the end of the month.

Then you need to quit saying the word "efficiency" and start saying
"economical".

 

[clifto]

ALL electrical heaters are 100% efficient.

What's that light I see in the toaster? Can't be the heater, it only
produces heat.

 

[Oscar_Lives]

Please don't crosspost this crap.

Do not post in HTML.

You are retarded.


I love blanket retarded statements. They amuse me. I researched the
Rinnai units to death.

 

[Drums]

Please don't tell me what to post Adolph.
If it bothers you that much go see a shrink.

 

[CBHVAC]

Please don't tell me what to post Adolph.
If it bothers you that much go see a shrink.

Notice you changed it to plain text like a good little boy, and all he was
telling you was basic Usenet policy, thats been around longer than you knew
what Road Runner was.

I mean, since all you pissy bitches wanna get the group back on track,
follow standard posting practice and set an example....like, not posting
your bullshit HTML.

 

[Drums]

I have been around usenet before you knew what a keyboard was
and outlook is not set to post html and it never was.
So if this happened it was not my doing or anything within my control.
as they say... Shit happens.

 

[daestrom]

I have been around usenet before you knew what a keyboard was
and outlook is not set to post html and it never was.
So if this happened it was not my doing or anything within my control.
as they say... Shit happens.

Perhaps because you replied to someone (Jim Baber) that had originally
posted in HTML? It is quite a pain to reply to those that use HTML as many
facets of newsreaders get messed up. For example, the common practice of
indenting previous posters with a '>' or some character to help separate out
each persons writing often quites and gets muddled when replying to HTML
posters.

Quite a pain.

daestrom

 

[Drums]

That's possible but I don't recall seing anything other then plain text.

 

[daestrom]

That's possible but I don't recall seing anything other then plain text.

If you're using OE (as I am), I only 'see' the plain text in Jim Baber's
post too. But the little icon in the upper corner shows an attachment, and
that is the HTML version.

So to recognize when someone has posted in HTML, I look for the attachement
icon (paperclip in OE). I don't open such attachments (I'm paranoid about
virii), but it tells me there is some HTML related.

Even today, when I go back and highlight Jim's message, and your first
reply, they show this 'attachment' icon and that there is some xxx.HTM file
attached.

daestrom

 

[CBHVAC]

I have been around usenet before you knew what a keyboard was
and outlook is not set to post html and it never was.
So if this happened it was not my doing or anything within my control.
as they say... Shit happens.

I doubt that seriously...

But then, I doubt seriously if someone said Q-Link you would know what that
was...or....
Fidonet
ARPANET
USENIX...

Ya aint been on Usenet before 1980....and I doubt seriously you are older
than 19 by your posting here.

Yawn..as boring as a Bourne Shell.....

 

[Steve Scott]

FidoNET. Talk about a blast from the past. Many moons ago I ran
a BBS on an Atari ST. Hooked it into FidoNET. I don't even recall
what software I used to do that now, but it wasn't very user friendly.
What a pain in the butt. Then went to running a BBS on a PC with
WildCat. MUCH easier. Multi-node with DesQview.

I haven't been on a BBS in so long. Is FidoNET still around?

 

[Drums]

Who cares what you doubt. Ooooh what are you, a heating tech?
That's about a step above a plumber. ;o)

 

[CBHVAC]

Who cares what you doubt. Ooooh what are you, a heating tech?
That's about a step above a plumber. ;o)

Actually, I own the company...I hire 19 year old 2nd year techs smarter than
you...most can actually admit they are wrong.
You care bubba..you replied.

Tell ya what, make fun of plumbers all ya want, but tell that to the one
down the road that just bought for Christmas, for his entire family,
each..(2 sons, 1 daughter, wife, and stepson) each a new Viper.
Not a big deal..no...but lets see..did you go drop almost $250,000 on your
wife let alone your entire family this season?

Flame on...the wife and I are going on our vacation this week...I wont have
time for your antics..Palm Springs is callin...

Oh...last thought...read up on those things we were using before you were
born...those things you cant comment on..deal with it youngin.

 

[CBHVAC]

FidoNET. Talk about a blast from the past. Many moons ago I ran
a BBS on an Atari ST. Hooked it into FidoNET. I don't even recall
what software I used to do that now, but it wasn't very user friendly.
What a pain in the butt. Then went to running a BBS on a PC with
WildCat. MUCH easier. Multi-node with DesQview.

I haven't been on a BBS in so long. Is FidoNET still around?

The last post to the Fidonet newsletter was on 1-13-03...

Got a few BBS nodes running around...trick is finding them. Most of the old
ones are long gone and shut down about the same time that the Fidonet
newsletter died. Sites still up, but good luck finding much past 03.

CFN, DFN and the others that link to a few nodes are up and running, and
most of the old MUSE and MUCKs are still around someplace. WindsMARE was
being ran from a buddy of mines server in Cleveland for a long time with
permission from MIT. Barry Kort was allowing some of the code to be ran from
Devs system...not all, but some, and micro still exists, with Barry running
it.

NOI and I used to kill hours on microMUSE, but when things got out of hand
on there, Barry changed the format and it more or less died. Ill still
telnet in from time to time to talk to him, and see whats going on
personally in his life, but other than that...nada.