Why does HD DVD picture distort on Mitsubishi Projection TV?

[Ban Pan and Scan]

I own a Mitsubishi WS-65907 Projection TV which I purchased in 2001
and I recently bought a Toshiba HD DVD player. When watching the film
"Troy" the picture is crystal-clear but when the camera moves on wide,
panoramic scenes the picture is distorted, like it's being compressed
or bent as if the film were being dragged across a "transparent"
corner as the camera moves. This distortion does NOT occur when
watching Discovery or ESPN HD. It is connected with component cables
(HDMI was not invented in 2001) and all settings are for 16X9. Does
this type of distortion occur on other projection TVs or is just my
TV? Does it occur on LCD/Plasmas? I used to get the same type of
distortion 3 years ago when "VOOM" HD satellite provider was in
business and they had 30 HDTV channels! Is there a way to fix this
problem without buying a new TV?

 

[Leonard Caillouet]

You are watching a 4:3 movie using a stretch mode that keeps the middle
pretty much normal and stretches the edges to fill the screen.

Leonard

 

[Jerry G.]

The bottom line is that you need to upgrade the set to something that
will fit to the proper scan mode required to properly view your DVD
player.



Jerry G.
======

 

[Leonard Caillouet]

Why is that, Jerry? This is a 16:9 set (all WS prefix sets from Mitsubishi
are) that scans both at 480p and 1080i. While it will not do 1080p, this
has nothing to do with the distortion that he described. His set may need
some geometric alignment, but what he described is the classic stretching of
a 4:3 image.

Leonard

 

[[email protected]]

Len, I think you hit the nail, damnear on the head. The OP doesn't
need to upgrade the set, just the source.

When a 16:9 image is recieved on a 16:9 set, all is well. A 4:3 image
can be set a number of different ways. They all use whatever name they
want, stretch, expand, panoramic, who knows. I think it may also be
called anamorphic, but I am not sure right now.

Well in this mode, while they stretch the sides, they do not compress
the middle.

Now there are two ways to do this, and I am a bit unfamiliar with most
of the WS models. I am working on one now and have the print, so that
means in a few days I will know alot more. But for now, however they
do it, there are two scenarios.

Most of the main H scan circuits in these things could have a relay.
That would be to switch in different scan modes, but I don't mean
switching from NTSC, to 720, to 1080, but for this mode. Of course
different convergence settings are needed. Many HDTVs have also simply
left out the NTSC mode, that is what scan converters are for. Actually
this "strech the sides" mode can be done in the scan converter as
well, but if it needs convergence for that mode, that is not how it is
done on that set.

If it was, there would only be one convergence and geometry setting.
If it is done in the convergence circuit, that is most likely
adjustable. I can reset it for less effect. Ant set that accomplishes
this with the convergence is beating on the STKs alot harder. I doubt
it is done much.

Now there is a workaround. The cheapest way to do it is in the H sweep
circuit. If that is the case that is not adjustable. But the wierd
stretch mode has a different convergence setting, so if you can get to
green geometry and reconverge after you get a more reasonable effect,
the results could be quite good, except for the dynamic focus error,
but I think that will be mininal.

The main H sweep circuit is not easily adjustable. An if you fix it
using the convergence, the YOU are beating on the STKs, possibly
beyond design limits.

I am not afraid to modify things, but one has to be reasonable. I wil
not spend the time required to modify the H sweep, so convergence is
where it happens. I would recommend extending the heatsink and using
fans. Also upgrade to the highest in the family of STK 393s. And if we
do that, we might need to up the threshold of the current limiting in
the main SMPS. If so, that will need a fan or extra heatsinking.

there is one thing about modifications, they must be reliable. It is
like getting married in a way. I can do this, I am willing to do this.
But that will most likely cost about $350. And subsequently if the STK
393 fails, there will be another bill. I'll cover the STK, but you pay
for even more enhanced heatsinking, possibly Peltier junctions.

Really, I worked for an ASC, and when I suggested a modification, even
on a COD job, the reponse was "Do you want to take the name off of it
and put your name there ?". I agree, that is usually the goal, to
restore it to as close as new condition as possible. But that is not
what the OP is asking for. I believe that this unit is working to
manufacturer's specs right now.

Any modification comes with responsibility. When I found the fix for
no sync with defective ICs in E40 series Sylvanias, it was no joke
(15-43301 I think) . I saved alot of sets. Manufacturers, I believe,
lose their right when they shirk their responsibilities to provide
readily avaiable parts, and that means AFTER the warranty period as
well.

There is a Panasonic in the shop, circa 2003, needs the DG board. No
parts were ever avaibable for this board. Just the whole board, I am
told it is NLA. This set is about four years old. And if that
nameplate means nothing to them, it means even less to me.

Only the people can speak on this one. Buy sets manufactured by
companies that support their product. Give up the instant
gratification. Most bang for the buck is supposed to apply to cars, if
the TV picute is that important to you, that is almost an OCD.

That is my opinion.

JURB

 

[Bruce Esquibel]

: Why is that, Jerry? This is a 16:9 set (all WS prefix sets from Mitsubishi
: are) that scans both at 480p and 1080i. While it will not do 1080p, this
: has nothing to do with the distortion that he described. His set may need
: some geometric alignment, but what he described is the classic stretching of
: a 4:3 image.


Yeah but I think Jerry is sort of right.

I'm not totally sure but I beleive the players like the HD-DVD players from
Toshiba will not output HD unless the HDMI connector is being used.

Using the component outs, like the OP said they were, I don't think gives you
anything more than 720p, which isn't native to this model Mits if I'm
reading the specs right.

So yes, the set is probably using one of the strech modes and causing the
distortion but it isn't going to be "fixed", the Mits is just too old.

I'm pretty sure all the HD-DVD and BluRay players are like this due to the
copy protection system. The component outs will only provide an upscaled
version of 480 to 1080i but it isn't the "hi def" version of the disc.

Or something like that.

Here is a snippet from the A1 owners manual...

To view high-definition picture in HD DVD
an HDTV display (720p, 1080i) is required.

Connect an HDTV set to the COMPONENT
jacks or the HDMI OUTPUT jack on this

Some discs may require use of HDMI OUTPUT
viewing of high resolution material.

That last one is the killer, I think at this time you can scratch out the
"some discs" and replace that with "all discs".

Bottom line is, without the Mits having the HDMI connector, none of the true
HD format dvd players are going to be outputting the high def format.

The tv needs to be replaced to correct the problem.

-bruce
[email protected]

 

[Leonard Caillouet]

: Why is that, Jerry? This is a 16:9 set (all WS prefix sets from
Mitsubishi
: are) that scans both at 480p and 1080i. While it will not do 1080p,
this
: has nothing to do with the distortion that he described. His set may
need
: some geometric alignment, but what he described is the classic
stretching of
: a 4:3 image.


Yeah but I think Jerry is sort of right.

I'm not totally sure but I beleive the players like the HD-DVD players
from
Toshiba will not output HD unless the HDMI connector is being used.

They will not output 1080p unless the HDMI connector is used. Of course
they output HD, just like any other upconverting player would. The only
thing that this set will not do is accept 720p or 1080p, and it will not
accept a digital interface such as HDMI.

Using the component outs, like the OP said they were, I don't think gives
you
anything more than 720p, which isn't native to this model Mits if I'm
reading the specs right.

It upconverts 720p to its native1080i. Just like the 1080p sets built today
upconvert 720p to their native 1080p.

So yes, the set is probably using one of the strech modes and causing the
distortion but it isn't going to be "fixed", the Mits is just too old.

It does not need to be fixed unless there is a geometry adjustment that
needs to be tweaked. If you feed a 4:3 image it can be viewed as a 4:3
image or stretched. If you feed it a 16:9 image or anamorphic image it will
appear unstretched if displayed at 1080i, or it can be distorted by the
strech modes at 480.

I'm pretty sure all the HD-DVD and BluRay players are like this due to the
copy protection system. The component outs will only provide an upscaled
version of 480 to 1080i but it isn't the "hi def" version of the disc.

Like what? Like you described above, which is wrong?

Or something like that.

Here is a snippet from the A1 owners manual...

To view high-definition picture in HD DVD
an HDTV display (720p, 1080i) is required.

Connect an HDTV set to the COMPONENT
jacks or the HDMI OUTPUT jack on this

This contradicts what you said above.

Some discs may require use of HDMI OUTPUT
viewing of high resolution material.

That last one is the killer, I think at this time you can scratch out the
"some discs" and replace that with "all discs".

No, you can read it as it is.

Bottom line is, without the Mits having the HDMI connector, none of the
true
HD format dvd players are going to be outputting the high def format.

The tv needs to be replaced to correct the problem.

This is simply inconsistent with what you quoted above. It certainly is not
true on the BD player that I recently tested the output on. Nor with the
xbox with the the HD drive. At worst, it depends on the disc, not the
player. The set, along with many others from this era, will certainly do
HD. The original question was one of aspect ratio distortion which has
nothing to do with any of this.

When this set is properly calibrated it hasa stunning pix. No need to jump
to the conclusion that it is obsolete yet. Just time to learn how to use
it.

Leonard

 

[Bruce Esquibel]

: When this set is properly calibrated it hasa stunning pix. No need to jump
: to the conclusion that it is obsolete yet. Just time to learn how to use
: it.


Yeah, your right, I'm wrong, is just the 1080p that is locked out except for
the HDMI connector. I know I saw one review of someones player in Home
Theater magazine where it said specifically the player under review only
outputted 480i/p (selectable) on all non-hdmi outputs. The only way to get
720 or 1080 anything was from the hdmi. This probably was some early
prototype they got their hands on because looking through the past year for
the blu-ray/hd-dvd articles, this isn't the case.

Not sure why that tidbit stuck with me.

I dunno, there still seems to be something missing with the OP's story to
me. I suppose there is a menu in the Toshiba set wrong with the output rate
to the component outs but with them saying they had the same problem with
the Zoom service a few years back, seems like trial and error would prevail
eventually.

Unless the software in the Mits is radically different from the WD-73827 I
have, I don't even think those "Wide Zoom", "Stretch" and "Expand" modes are
even available unless the set is seeing a 4:3 analog 480i/p signal. I think
anything above 480 is two choices, normal and full, where full is just
blowing up the pixels to crop out the black bars from an upconverted 4:3
source.

So it just seems odd to me everything got dumbed down as it is now. If in
fact they have a Toshiba HD-DVD player, got a copy of the Troy HD-DVD and
are using the component outs, if the Mits is giving options for those expand
modes, that is really strange.

Since they didn't give model numbers or menu settings of anything it all
crystal ball guesses but it seems one would have to go out of the way to be
where they are at now. Especially if they put up with it all that time on
the Zoom service.

-bruce
[email protected]

 

[Ban Pan and Scan]

They will not output 1080p unless the HDMI connector is used. Of course
they output HD, just like any other upconverting player would. The only
thing that this set will not do is accept 720p or 1080p, and it will not
accept a digital interface such as HDMI.


It upconverts 720p to its native1080i. Just like the 1080p sets built today
upconvert 720p to their native 1080p.


It does not need to be fixed unless there is a geometry adjustment that
needs to be tweaked. If you feed a 4:3 image it can be viewed as a 4:3
image or stretched. If you feed it a 16:9 image or anamorphic image it will
appear unstretched if displayed at 1080i, or it can be distorted by the
strech modes at 480.


Like what? Like you described above, which is wrong?





This contradicts what you said above.



No, you can read it as it is.



This is simply inconsistent with what you quoted above. It certainly is not
true on the BD player that I recently tested the output on. Nor with the
xbox with the the HD drive. At worst, it depends on the disc, not the
player. The set, along with many others from this era, will certainly do
HD. The original question was one of aspect ratio distortion which has
nothing to do with any of this.

When this set is properly calibrated it hasa stunning pix. No need to jump
to the conclusion that it is obsolete yet. Just time to learn how to use
it.

Leonard- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I own a Mitsubishi WS-65907 Projection TV which I purchased in
2001 .......Actually, I think it may be some type of convergence issue
afterall. A few things: First, the TV automatically selects the
"Standard" format anytime the source is 1080i, it will NOT allow you
to choose ANY other viewing format. Second, the Toshiba HD DVD player
will automatically down-convert from 1080i to 480p/480i if you
attached it by S-Video cable or RCA type of cable to theTV and if it
does that the format being played is displayed on the unit. To verify
this I used a regular DVD in the HD player and connected it with
Component cables and it said 480p on the unit. But when the HD DVD
was played thru the Component cables 1080i was displayed on the unit,
so the component cables have no problem transferring the 1080i
signal. Third, I have a "Directv" HD satellite receiver and I get
about 7 HD channels but I forgot that I am viewing them in 480p
according to the display on the sat receiver. They look much better
than other channels because the source is in HD even though I am
watching them in 480p. When I select 1080i on the sat receiver the
picture gets distorted just like the HD DVD. So that convinces me
that HDMI cables are not "absolutely necessary" to view a 1080i source
because "Discovery HD" is not encoding their broadcasts, forcing
people to use a HDMI cable . Fourth, the picture distortion I
described in my original email is not completely accurate in that it
occurs not only toward the edges but in the middle of the screen as
well. At times it looks like part of the picture is compressed while
the rest of the picture is normal. It almost seems like the picture
is compressed just enough to "fit" on the 16x9 screen but you can't
quite see the edges - if that makes any sense. So having said all of
that is it a convergence issue on just my TV? Is this problem
inherent on most or all Projection TVs from 2001 and earlier? Is it a
problem only for Mitsus? I spent $5000 to buy this TV and $500 to fix
it (module replacement) in 2003 and another $500 in 2005. I guess I
got a "Lemon" of a Mitsu but I'm 6 grand into this thing and don't
really want to buy a new TV. It seems to me that if this problem is
inherent on all Mitsu projection TVs then they should have never
advertised it as HDTV capable!

 

[Leonard Caillouet]

I own a Mitsubishi WS-65907 Projection TV which I purchased in
2001 .......Actually, I think it may be some type of convergence issue
afterall. A few things: First, the TV automatically selects the
"Standard" format anytime the source is 1080i, it will NOT allow you
to choose ANY other viewing format. Second, the Toshiba HD DVD player
will automatically down-convert from 1080i to 480p/480i if you
attached it by S-Video cable or RCA type of cable to theTV and if it
does that the format being played is displayed on the unit. To verify
this I used a regular DVD in the HD player and connected it with
Component cables and it said 480p on the unit. But when the HD DVD
was played thru the Component cables 1080i was displayed on the unit,
so the component cables have no problem transferring the 1080i
signal. Third, I have a "Directv" HD satellite receiver and I get
about 7 HD channels but I forgot that I am viewing them in 480p
according to the display on the sat receiver. They look much better
than other channels because the source is in HD even though I am
watching them in 480p. When I select 1080i on the sat receiver the
picture gets distorted just like the HD DVD. So that convinces me
that HDMI cables are not "absolutely necessary" to view a 1080i source
because "Discovery HD" is not encoding their broadcasts, forcing
people to use a HDMI cable . Fourth, the picture distortion I
described in my original email is not completely accurate in that it
occurs not only toward the edges but in the middle of the screen as
well. At times it looks like part of the picture is compressed while
the rest of the picture is normal. It almost seems like the picture
is compressed just enough to "fit" on the 16x9 screen but you can't
quite see the edges - if that makes any sense. So having said all of
that is it a convergence issue on just my TV? Is this problem
inherent on most or all Projection TVs from 2001 and earlier? Is it a
problem only for Mitsus? I spent $5000 to buy this TV and $500 to fix
it (module replacement) in 2003 and another $500 in 2005. I guess I
got a "Lemon" of a Mitsu but I'm 6 grand into this thing and don't
really want to buy a new TV. It seems to me that if this problem is
inherent on all Mitsu projection TVs then they should have never
advertised it as HDTV capable!

What module was replaced? What was the second service? Perhaps it was not
aligned correctly after the service?

Leonard