Wire prices

[Frank Olson]

They're in Olson's mind. Petem hasn't any experience or knowledge so Olson is able to snow him deeper than Denver's airport.

All kidding aside, there are some NMC boxes available with a ground lug. It's there for convenience in connecting stuff. If the
item needs grounding and the lug is there, use it. Otherwise, use a wire nut.

In Olson's original gaff on this subject he thought that the lug must always be used. That is of course absurd.

My so called "original gaff" had nothing to do with the "lug must always
be used". It referenced a section of CAN/ULC-524 (Installation Standard
for Fire Alarm Systems) which *requires* all fire alarm device back
boxes be "bonded to ground". Oh, and by the way, a CSA approved plastic
gang box of any variety must have a ground lug. And guess what else??
All components associated with running of cable and the cable itself
must be CSA approved to be used in Canada.

In your continued efforts to discredit me you've used every dirty trick
in the book, but you have yet to PROVE anything by them. You've
fabricated outright lies about me as well. What does this "say" about
you, Robert?

Where do I work Robert? What's the name of the company? Put up or shut up.

 

[Frank Olson]

I rarely mentioned his stupid post on this subject at all.

Probably because you "checked" CAN/ULC-524 and know I'm right but just
won't admit it. C'mon, Robert. Here's your chance to *really* prove I
don't know what the heck I'm talkin' about.

It's for his other lies that I usually smack him. You don't know
anything about flying so the absurdity of his entire series of lies about that goes way over your head.

You don't know anything about flying either.

You also wouldn't
understand the physical impossibility of the lie he told about the ladder.

<snip> You weren't there. Heck, I was and I don't even really know
what happened.

Now let's look at Olson's claims of doing all manner of major fire alarms in high rise buildings, etc. If there were one shred of
truth to those tales, there would be lots of people in the trade in his area who know him. After he started calling my suppliers in
an effort to hurt my business I decided to find out more about Frank Olson. I checked with every major supplier in and around
Vancouver. None ever heard of him. I also contacted inspectors in and around Burnaby (where he says he is) and Vancouver. The
result was the same. No one knew of him. I posted a question about him on a local (to him) forum. No reply.

And I've already explained the reason why about twenty times. This is
proof positive that you really don't read well.

I did finally find one person in the personnel department of one company in the area who said he had once worked their briefly but
had been terminated.

Wrongo. (Or wrong "Olson").

I don't know if that was by his choice or theirs.

There was no "choice" involved. It never happened.

It's his name, alright.

That may be. How many "Robert Bass'" are there "out there"?? Even
living in the same great State of Florida? Ever hear of "Bobby Bass"??
You signed an affidavit stating you were *not* that individual so you
could re-mortgage your Dad's house.

What the rest
tells us is that he is not an installer any more and he has not done any of the great projects he claims he has.

Heh... "Assuming" again, are we?

In short, the
man's a pathological liar.

A phrase more appropriate to your own character.

 

[Norm Mugford]

You mean I don't have to ground the wooden stud......
All this time I been wasting my time and energies
making sure I had the proper grounding.

Norm Mugford
:^)

I never disbelieved you....and I still think it's dee dee dee. The device
in
the box is already grounded by the ground in the romex, to ground a
non-conducting plastic box is wacko....like grounding the wooden stud it's
nailed to would be.


|
http://tnblnx3.tnb.com/emAlbum/albums/Boxes and Covers/boxes_11_eng.pdf
|
| go see that..after come back and give us what you think about it...
|
|
| "Crash Gordon" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message
de
| [email protected]...
| > Wonder if they use plastic wire to ground it.
| >
| >
| > | > | Grounding a plastic back box?
| > | Let me see, how did that song go? M_I_C_K_E_Y <> M_O_U_S_E.
| > |
| > message
| > | | > | > Don wrote:
in
| > | >> message | > | >>
| > | >>>Roland Moore wrote:
| > | >>>
| > | >>>>18/7? I have heard of 18/6 for readers and use it often. 18/7?
Are
| > you
| > | >>>>counting the drain?
| > | >>>
| > | >>>Yeah. We have "weird wire" here. Fire cable comes in "odd"
| > conductors.
| > | >>>18/3, 18,5, 18/7, etc. That's because CAN/ULC-S524 (Installation
| > | >>>Standard for Fire Alarm Systems) requires every device backbox be
| > bonded
| > | >>>to ground. Ask "FireTek". He's the expert.
| > | >>
| > | >>
| > | >> even the plastic ones?
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > CSA plastic boxes have a ground lug. And yes, you have to bond
all
| > back
| > | > boxes to ground.
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|

I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html

 

[alarman]

I never disbelieved you....and I still think it's dee dee dee. The device
in
the box is already grounded by the ground in the romex, to ground a
non-conducting plastic box is wacko....like grounding the wooden stud it's
nailed to would be.

One reason I can see to use a grounding screw in a plastic box would be if
the ground screw was bonded to a tapped metal hole meant to secure the
device or metal blank to be attached to the box. The Carlon 4-0 boxes I have
are made that way.
js

 

[Robert L Bass]

I've been working for 13.5 years at the same place...

You'd think by now you would have finished one installation. I mean really, that Photo Hut must be challenging for you. :^)

 

[Robert L Bass]

Yet it appears you now seem to support it

I said there is a reason for it. In most cases it's unnecessary.

btw I've never posted about the
plastic box grounding until today

I checked. You're right. I must have been confusing you with another idiot.

 

[Petem]

you never took time to understand why there are so much law for electrical
wiring..

all of this is to protect you,and everyone else of being zapped by a faulty
electric device....

 

[Petem]

every box sold here are about the same..

I am pretty sure the law in the state are different about grounding,here ,if
you don't screw your ground to the box you wont pass inspection...

 

[Petem]

I've been doing much more then one,and my average job is about 20 time more
complex of any of the big job you pretend you've done...

but now big bAss what can you say about the link I provided ? no commentary?

 

[Crash Gordon]

Yah ground a metal cover might make sense. But grounding a plastic box when
the installed device is already grounded does not.


| | >I never disbelieved you....and I still think it's dee dee dee. The device
| >in
| > the box is already grounded by the ground in the romex, to ground a
| > non-conducting plastic box is wacko....like grounding the wooden stud
it's
| > nailed to would be.
|
| One reason I can see to use a grounding screw in a plastic box would be if
| the ground screw was bonded to a tapped metal hole meant to secure the
| device or metal blank to be attached to the box. The Carlon 4-0 boxes I
have
| are made that way.
| js
|
|

 

[Crash Gordon]

Doesn't Monster Cable make that stuff...100% electron free wire/cable...sure
they doo, costs like 10 bucks a foot.


| Only if you shake the extra electrons out of the wire first before
screwing
| it down.
|
| | > Wonder if they use plastic wire to ground it.
| >
| >
| > | > | Grounding a plastic back box?
| > | Let me see, how did that song go? M_I_C_K_E_Y <> M_O_U_S_E.
| > |
| > message
| > | | > | > Don wrote:
| > | >> message | > | >>
| > | >>>Roland Moore wrote:
| > | >>>
| > | >>>>18/7? I have heard of 18/6 for readers and use it often. 18/7? Are
| > you
| > | >>>>counting the drain?
| > | >>>
| > | >>>Yeah. We have "weird wire" here. Fire cable comes in "odd"
| > conductors.
| > | >>>18/3, 18,5, 18/7, etc. That's because CAN/ULC-S524 (Installation
| > | >>>Standard for Fire Alarm Systems) requires every device backbox be
| > bonded
| > | >>>to ground. Ask "FireTek". He's the expert.
| > | >>
| > | >>
| > | >> even the plastic ones?
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > CSA plastic boxes have a ground lug. And yes, you have to bond all
| > back
| > | > boxes to ground.
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|

 

[Crash Gordon]

uh, ok...enlighten me how grounding a PLASTIC box (or any other
non-conducting object) will protect me (or) you from being zapped.


| you never took time to understand why there are so much law for electrical
| wiring..
|
| all of this is to protect you,and everyone else of being zapped by a
faulty
| electric device....
|
|
|
| "Crash Gordon" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message
de
| [email protected]...
| >I saw I read, never see anything like that before....and I still think
it's
| > silly.
| >
| >
| > | > |
| >
http://tnblnx3.tnb.com/emAlbum/albums/Boxes and Covers/boxes_11_eng.pdf
| > |
| > | go read
| > |
| > |
| > | "Crash Gordon" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le
message
| > de
| > | [email protected]...
| > | > all that stuff is already grounded, to ground a plastic box is just
| > plain
| > | > silly.
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > | > | > | Olson is right,even if you use plastic box,you need to put a
ground
| > in
| > | > the
| > | > | grounding lug...
| > | > |
| > | > | you must be asking why, a so crazy thing..
| > | > |
| > | > | its because,even if you use plastic box the ground wire need to
| > connect
| > | > to
| > | > | every metallic part of an electric system,that is not carrying
| > power,so
| > | > the
| > | > | metal on a switch,or an electric plug,or on a metal cover on the
| > plastic
| > | > | box, they all need to be grounded,its the damn code that say it
| > must,so
| > | > by
| > | > | putting a ground lug,that connects to the hole where you screw
your
| > | > device
| > | > | or plate on the plastic box you respect the code,the ground wire
is
| > | > there
| > | > to
| > | > | protect your life,not to just help copper wire company sell more
| > | > wire....But
| > | > | if its your life,just yours,not any other,I would be in favour of
| > not
| > | > | putting any ground wire to any electrical system that you could
| > | > touch....
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | > | I you would have a minimum understanding of any electrical code
you
| > | > would
| > | > | know that...
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | > | "Robert L Bass" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message
de
| > | > | > | > | [email protected]...
| > | > | >> Grounding a plastic back box?
| > | > | >
| > | > | > It's another olsonism, like levitating ladders and snap-rolling
| > 737's.
| > | > | > He's got a million of them (they're all lies, of course).
| > | > | >
| > | > | >> Let me see, how did that song go?
| > | > | >
| > | > | > O-l-s-o-n....
| > | > | >
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|

 

[Don]

uh, ok...enlighten me how grounding a PLASTIC box (or any other
non-conducting object) will protect me (or) you from being zapped.

uh, ok...the ground wire from the source goes on this lug along with the
ground strap from the device in the box.

 

[Doug]

I imagine the purpose isn't to "ground" the box, but to try to ensure the
ground is passed through to the device being mounted on the box. The ground
lug appears to be tied to the device mounting screw sockets, any device
mounted to the box will be grounded. It may also be to try to ensure the
ground continuity to devices further down the circuit, who knows, but a
quick google seems to confirm that it is a requirement of the Canadian
Electrical Code.

This is from a document on Carlon's website.

Canadian Applications: Per Canadian electric code, a separate bonding
connection is required in nonmetallic electrical boxes. Utilize Grounding
Lug (Fig. 11) and green Ground Screw provided with Yoke.
http://www.carlon.com/Installation_Training/IT-IS125.pdf


Doug

 

[Don]

I imagine the purpose isn't to "ground" the box, but to try to ensure the
ground is passed through to the device being mounted on the box. The ground
lug appears to be tied to the device mounting screw sockets, any device
mounted to the box will be grounded. It may also be to try to ensure the
ground continuity to devices further down the circuit, who knows, but a
quick google seems to confirm that it is a requirement of the Canadian
Electrical Code.

probably because there fingers are so cold that they can't twist the wires
together so they need a lug they can tighten with a tool.

 

[Robert L Bass]

Canadian Electrical Code...

Doesn't apply here. :^)

 

[Crash Gordon]

You guys are missing the point. The device (switch/outlet) is already
grounded by the ground wire from the supply line. Unless, they use very
different wire in Canada...why would you want to connect a plastic box to
the ground??? The device is grounded, the box is plastic, the cover plate is
plastic...what exactly are you grounding ???


|I imagine the purpose isn't to "ground" the box, but to try to ensure the
| ground is passed through to the device being mounted on the box. The
ground
| lug appears to be tied to the device mounting screw sockets, any device
| mounted to the box will be grounded. It may also be to try to ensure the
| ground continuity to devices further down the circuit, who knows, but a
| quick google seems to confirm that it is a requirement of the Canadian
| Electrical Code.
|
| This is from a document on Carlon's website.
|
| Canadian Applications: Per Canadian electric code, a separate bonding
| connection is required in nonmetallic electrical boxes. Utilize Grounding
| Lug (Fig. 11) and green Ground Screw provided with Yoke.
| http://www.carlon.com/Installation_Training/IT-IS125.pdf
|
|
| Doug
|
|
|
| | > uh, ok...enlighten me how grounding a PLASTIC box (or any other
| > non-conducting object) will protect me (or) you from being zapped.
| >
| >
| > | > | you never took time to understand why there are so much law for
| > electrical
| > | wiring..
| > |
| > | all of this is to protect you,and everyone else of being zapped by a
| > faulty
| > | electric device....
| > |
| > |
| > |
| > | "Crash Gordon" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le
message
| > de
| > | [email protected]...
| > | >I saw I read, never see anything like that before....and I still
think
| > it's
| > | > silly.
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > | > | > |
| > | >
| >
http://tnblnx3.tnb.com/emAlbum/albums/Boxes and Covers/boxes_11_eng.pdf
| > | > |
| > | > | go read
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | > | "Crash Gordon" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le
| > message
| > | > de
| > | > | [email protected]...
| > | > | > all that stuff is already grounded, to ground a plastic box is
| > just
| > | > plain
| > | > | > silly.
| > | > | >
| > | > | >
| > | > | > | > | > | > | Olson is right,even if you use plastic box,you need to put a
| > ground
| > | > in
| > | > | > the
| > | > | > | grounding lug...
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | you must be asking why, a so crazy thing..
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | its because,even if you use plastic box the ground wire need
to
| > | > connect
| > | > | > to
| > | > | > | every metallic part of an electric system,that is not carrying
| > | > power,so
| > | > | > the
| > | > | > | metal on a switch,or an electric plug,or on a metal cover on
the
| > | > plastic
| > | > | > | box, they all need to be grounded,its the damn code that say
it
| > | > must,so
| > | > | > by
| > | > | > | putting a ground lug,that connects to the hole where you screw
| > your
| > | > | > device
| > | > | > | or plate on the plastic box you respect the code,the ground
wire
| > is
| > | > | > there
| > | > | > to
| > | > | > | protect your life,not to just help copper wire company sell
more
| > | > | > wire....But
| > | > | > | if its your life,just yours,not any other,I would be in favour
| > of
| > | > not
| > | > | > | putting any ground wire to any electrical system that you
could
| > | > | > touch....
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | I you would have a minimum understanding of any electrical
code
| > you
| > | > | > would
| > | > | > | know that...
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | "Robert L Bass" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le
| > message
| > de
| > | > | > | > | > | > | [email protected]...
| > | > | > | >> Grounding a plastic back box?
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > It's another olsonism, like levitating ladders and
| > snap-rolling
| > | > 737's.
| > | > | > | > He's got a million of them (they're all lies, of course).
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | >> Let me see, how did that song go?
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > O-l-s-o-n....
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > |
| > | > | >
| > | > | >
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|

 

[Robert L Bass]

You guys are missing the point...

In this case it's a code issue. The Canadian electrical code (which was written in an upside down 737) mandates the lug. It
doesn't matter that it's a dumb idea. It's *their* idea and they insist on it. So if you ever decide to desert your country like a
certain clerk in Burnaby, always remember while making up stories of jobs you never worked on to mention that you ground those
plastic boxes. Otherwise people will think you're an idiot. No, wait...

 

[Robert L Bass]

requirement of the Canadian Electrical Code.

Just one more reason not to live in Canada.

You needed another?

 

[alarman]

Maybe in case you have an older switch without a ground lug, or a fixture
with a broken or missing grounding tail. Redundancy?
js