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Elektor Electronics new website

K

keith

Jan 1, 1970
0
Other way round. The recipient satisfied with the payment that has been
agreed. That's bargaining. The basis of capitalism.

But then you go on to say:

Maybe I should have said "overpaid"

Which is worthy of a Cossack hat.
 
F

Franc Zabkar

Jan 1, 1970
0
A perfect capitalist bargain is struck when neither party is
satisfied.
But then you go on to say:

Maybe I should have said "overpaid"

Which is worthy of a Cossack hat.

Cossacks were *not* communists. In fact your glib remark does them a
gross disservice. During WW2 they fought on both sides, some to free
Russia from the existing tyranny of Stalin, others to protect Russia
from the impending tyranny of Hitler.

See http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Marina/6150/cos.html

After WW2 the British intentionally repatriated tens of thousands of
Cossack POWs and refugees (and many others) knowing that they would
all be butchered by Stalin (ref. "The Minister and the Massacre"
(1986) by Nikolai Tolstoy).


- Franc Zabkar
 
J

John Woodgate

Jan 1, 1970
0
I read in sci.electronics.design that Franc Zabkar
After WW2 the British intentionally repatriated tens of thousands of
Cossack POWs and refugees (and many others) knowing that they would all
be butchered by Stalin (ref. "The Minister and the Massacre" (1986) by
Nikolai Tolstoy).

It was bad, but there was not much choice. There was a real fear that
Stalin would switch his attack to US, Britain and France, and this issue
would very probably have triggered that.
 
R

Richard the Dreaded Libertarian

Jan 1, 1970
0
A perfect capitalist bargain is struck when neither party is
satisfied.

Bullshit. That is absolutely wrong. If you believe this to be true,
then someone has taught you an untruth, that could be a very dangerous
thing if it becomes popular.

Under the "perfect" capitalist system, if both parties don't make a profit,
they simply will choose to not do the deal. Under Capitalism, _everybody_
wins, because every transaction is between two people, each of which is
seeking a profit. If I have a bunch of A, but would like to have some
B, and you have a bunch of B, but would like to have some A, then you
and I can discuss how much of your B is worth how much of my A, and we
both come away better off in our own way - I have more B, which I wanted,
and have a little less A, which I didn't want all that much anyway, and
you have some more A, which you wanted, and didn't pay any more B for
it than you felt was fair and equitable.

_THAT_ is what Free Trade is all about.

Hope This Helps!
Rich
 
J

John Woodgate

Jan 1, 1970
0
I read in sci.electronics.design that Richard the Dreaded Libertarian
doubleclick.net>) about 'Elektor Electronics new website', on Mon, 21
Feb 2005:
Bullshit. That is absolutely wrong. If you believe this to be true, then
someone has taught you an untruth, that could be a very dangerous thing
if it becomes popular.

It would be better stated as 'only just satisfied', i.e. neither (or
perhaps both) is/are gloating over fleecing the other.

A Scotsman bought a small item for a pound, and spent some time counting
the change. The shop assistant asked 'Is it right?' 'Nobbut just!' was
the dour reply.
 
M

mc

Jan 1, 1970
0
A Scotsman bought a small item for a pound, and spent some time counting
the change. The shop assistant asked 'Is it right?' 'Nobbut just!' was
the dour reply.

For the Americans: That means "Just barely." :)
 
K

Ken Smith

Jan 1, 1970
0
Winfield Hill said:
Good point. But be careful, satisfaction doesn't buy homes or put
food on the table. Somehow I doubt that many Linux programmers are
"overpaid." There's lots of competition in that field.

Many Linux programmers work for free and are over paid at that :)

I have been surprised by the quality of the software that people develope
for free. This surprise has usually been in the positive direction. It
is a weird "business model" but I can see it becoming a major force in the
future. I have often written software for a specific task that could,
chances are, save others a few hours of time. There is no way I could
market such software and make a profit but if I had some way to easily
share it and the others had a fast way to find it, I would share it.
And soon the Indian outsourcing community will make inroads. But
my guess is Indian that outsource managers do better when a software
spec has been written, or verbally spelled out by a hiring-company's
developers. So perhaps the offshore-programming approach will not
work well with the expoding free-software initiatives.

I predict that within 20 years, Indian companies will be outsourcing in a
big way. Even the largest democracy will find it doesn't have enough of
certain types of workers.
 
T

ted

Jan 1, 1970
0
Kryten said:
Yes, these titles do sound like industrial press releases (which can be read
for free in the trade mags).

Mind you, I don't envy her position.

The readers are dwindling because there are fewer people interested in stuff
like amateur radio or making hi-fi. Professional outfits have got the
resources to develop sophisticated products.

The writers are dwindling because fewer of them have the time or inclination
to write for a pittance. After Hood died, there was only the lunatic fringe
left.

In the days when a radio was something you could make yourself, you could
fit an interesting article into a couple of pages and a circuit diagram.

These days you need reams of source code and a very long explanation!

On top of that, if anyone has a project they think others might be
interested in, they can publish it on the web themselves.

I think we need to write a list of what we want to read, then wonder who is
going to write it.

K.

Could you (and others here) list topics they would like to read about?

I've written about 15 articles for EW over the last 3 years, and have
had little feedback from readers (apart from the odd student wanting
help with their project)

Perhaps they are a)too boring b)too irrelevant c)too incomprehensible

I'd just like to know!!
 
K

Kryten

Jan 1, 1970
0
Could you (and others here) list topics they would like to read about?
I've written about 15 articles for EW over the last 3 years, and have
had little feedback from readers (apart from the odd student wanting
help with their project)

Perhaps they are a)too boring b)too irrelevant c)too incomprehensible

I'd just like to know!!

That is an excellent question and I'd like a good time to think about it!
:)

But yes, it is a hard job to think of good stuff.

For a long time, the main cool consumer electronic goods were stuff like TV
and hi-fi.
You could pack an interesting article in a couple of pages.
You didn't have to be a rocket scientist.

At some point, somebody noticed that an ordinary C64 had more processing
power than the computers in the Apollo spacecraft.

Nowadays my main cool consumer electronic goods include a hi-fi with similar
CPU speed as a C64, and a laptop with many thousands of times more
processing power and code than a C64.

It is a lot harder to write articles people would think "hey, cool, I'll try
that myself".
We had a chance of building a nice phono pre-amp.
We have much less chance of building a CD player chip or a 24-bit DAC and
oversampling filter.
Or a Windows-beating OS (unless you are Linus Torvalds).

The coolness threshold has risen so high that it takes a lot more effort to
put together decent offerings. Elektor need to have much more staff
producing more projects to do.
 
K

keith

Jan 1, 1970
0
A perfect capitalist bargain is struck when neither party is
satisfied.

Bullshit! If you truely believe this you're not worth doing business
with.
Cossacks were *not* communists. In fact your glib remark does them a
gross disservice. During WW2 they fought on both sides, some to free
Russia from the existing tyranny of Stalin, others to protect Russia
from the impending tyranny of Hitler.

Ok, so you're a Cossack, and not a commie. Russian hats, all the same.
See http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Marina/6150/cos.html

After WW2 the British intentionally repatriated tens of thousands of
Cossack POWs and refugees (and many others) knowing that they would all
be butchered by Stalin (ref. "The Minister and the Massacre" (1986) by
Nikolai Tolstoy).

<yawn>
 
F

Franc Zabkar

Jan 1, 1970
0
Bullshit! If you truely believe this you're not worth doing business
with.

This particular position can be viewed in many ways, each equally
valid. It's a bit like that proverbial half glass - you can see it as
half full, half empty, or twice as big as it needs to be. In this
particular case, if the employee were satisfied, then the employer
would be thinking, "damn, I could have screwed him down a little
more". OTOH, if the employer were happy, then the employee would be
thinking, "damn, I should have tried to screw more out of him". The
ideal bargain is reached when *neither* party is happy because it
follows that *both* would then be happy.
Ok, so you're a Cossack, and not a commie. Russian hats, all the same.

No, I'm none of the above. I'm just someone whose view of the world
extends beyond his own backyard.

You are already well established in Usenet as an arrogant buffoon, but
this comment is a new low, even for you. Your original comment was
ignorant but forgiveable. A man of stature would have apologised and
moved on, but you are not such a man.

- Franc Zabkar
 
D

Dirk Bruere at Neopax

Jan 1, 1970
0
Fred said:
Fred Abse wrote...
[quoted text muted]

That's right. I guess it was your 'probably not "well paid"' comment
that set me off. Software engineers at IBM, Sun, Novell, Red Hat, HP,
Intel, CA, and Cisco, to mention a few places where massive Linux
programming is done, are probably quite well paid. Linux development is
serious business now.


Yes, I guess it all revolves around what one considers "well paid". Maybe
I should have said "overpaid"

He is well paid who is well satisfied ...
As I once joked with my boss, "...if you paid me twice as much I'd only have to
come in half the time."

--
Dirk

The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium
http://www.theconsensus.org
 
K

keith

Jan 1, 1970
0
This particular position can be viewed in many ways, each equally
valid. It's a bit like that proverbial half glass - you can see it as
half full, half empty, or twice as big as it needs to be. In this
particular case, if the employee were satisfied, then the employer
would be thinking, "damn, I could have screwed him down a little
more". OTOH, if the employer were happy, then the employee would be
thinking, "damn, I should have tried to screw more out of him". The
ideal bargain is reached when *neither* party is happy because it
follows that *both* would then be happy.

Nope. If you're not happy trading your dollar for a loaf of bread and the
baker isn't happy parting with his loaf of bread for a dollar, you have
no business doing business. You like your dollar too much and he likes
his bread too much. May you eat your dollar and he spend his bread.
No, I'm none of the above. I'm just someone whose view of the world
extends beyond his own backyard.

If you cannot get with a figure of speech, then you indeed are hopless, as
you have been every time we've crossed paths.
You are already well established in Usenet as an arrogant buffoon, but
this comment is a new low, even for you. Your original comment was
ignorant but forgiveable. A man of stature would have apologised and
moved on, but you are not such a man.

Perhaps I am arrogant, but you've proven to be a ignorant time we've
crossed paths. Apologise to human waste like you? FOr calling a
ruskie's hat a "cossack hat"? Please. Grow up Francis!
 
J

john jardine

Jan 1, 1970
0
[clip]
Could you (and others here) list topics they would like to read about?

I've written about 15 articles for EW over the last 3 years, and have
had little feedback from readers (apart from the odd student wanting
help with their project)

Perhaps they are a)too boring b)too irrelevant c)too incomprehensible

I'd just like to know!!

Feedback, a dose of whingeing, even a mild rant. A pleasure!
It'd be easier though, if you givuzz summat to go at :)
Had a quick rummage through a few issues but couldn't spot a "Ted" or an
"Edward" (ah-ha an alias?, audio themes?). A title or two would help focus.

I can only speak for myself but I know it's difficult to list what's liable
to catch my attention in a magazine. E.g. nowadays I've little interest in
any audio subject but ... an article turned up by Doug' Self on
analogue-switching that I found really thought provoking. Capacitor quality,
held zilch interest until Cyril started going on about it. I'd no feeling
for sampling method until Ian Hickman wrote up his experience avalanching a
transistor.
I think it isn't the subject headings or topics that make or break a
magazine, it's the obvious knowledge, love of their subjects and level of
detail that some authors can introduce.
Writing style is of no consequence. I'm perfectly happy with pigdin English,
as long as the content is there, (newsgroups and the WWW can be a good
example of this).
As a kid, WW was beyond me but odd bits were of interest so I bought it. The
Reithian perspective still holds true and any new kids on the block should
expect to be able to do the same. But ... times have changed and Kryten
rightly notes that few people are now in a position to follow the subject.
Hence a lack of motivation for authors to promulgate their enthusiasms
amongst a wide readership. Last person out be sure to turn off the lights.

For me, a big no-no, is any magazine article designed to provide an
'overview' of some technical product or process or technique. Unfortunately
there seems more and more of this type of article turning up in the (pay
for) magazines.
Overviews are the easy bit and are not enough. Anyone can pitch the plot of
a new film or novel, the clever bit is putting it all together.
Yeah, great, OK, tell me about the USB2 setup but be sure to also tell me
all the exact, nitty-gritty hardware and software details, sufficient to
allow me to make use of it as engineer, rather than as consumer of
here-today-gone-tomorrow commercial pre-designed product and software. If it
takes 6 months to do so, then don't even bother trying. Just give me a
single paragaph taster. Instead, tell me in a few pages, some interesting
things about diodes and transistors and oscillators and op-amps and
resistors and stuff.
The radio amateurs have similar problems with commercial kit killing their
raison d'etre. A number of them adopted a QRP construction ethos. Maybe we
can do the same.
I'm pretty much repeating Kryten's comments but I've seen a number of mag's
go down over the past few years and all for these same reasons.
They seem to change EW editors every five minutes. What's sorely missing
from the mag' is some kind of continuity, like a monthly or even occasional,
Alastair Cooke style, Letter-from-the-trenches.
Maybe you can step onto the crease?.
regards
john
 
Y

YD

Jan 1, 1970
0
Many Linux programmers work for free and are over paid at that :)

I have been surprised by the quality of the software that people develope
for free. This surprise has usually been in the positive direction. It
is a weird "business model" but I can see it becoming a major force in the
future. I have often written software for a specific task that could,
chances are, save others a few hours of time. There is no way I could
market such software and make a profit but if I had some way to easily
share it and the others had a fast way to find it, I would share it.

Try registering it at www.sourceforge.net. Don't know the internal
workings of it but I've found some nice apps there. Another place
might be www.nonags.com. If they're good and useful at least in the
limited community they're aimed at you may find some paid developments
coming your way.

- YD.
 
T

ted

Jan 1, 1970
0
John, thanks for your comments

Had a quick rummage through a few issues but couldn't spot a "Ted" or an
"Edward" (ah-ha an alias?, audio themes?). A title or two would help
focus.
Try Eddy...):)

I can only speak for myself but I know it's difficult to list what's liable
to catch my attention in a magazine. E.g. nowadays I've little interest in
any audio subject but ... an article turned up by Doug' Self on
analogue-switching that I found really thought provoking. Capacitor quality,
held zilch interest until Cyril started going on about it. I'd no feeling
for sampling method until Ian Hickman wrote up his experience avalanching a
transistor.
These guys are incredibly knowledgeable about their fields, and
whatever they write about makes interesting

reading, even if you are not too interested in the subject. The
downside is that there aren't that many people

around willing to put so much effort and get paid very little for it.
Once upon a time maybe, but not

nowadays...So the first problem is the lack of quality writers..
I think it isn't the subject headings or topics that make or break a
magazine, it's the obvious knowledge, love of their subjects and level of
detail that some authors can introduce. Exactly

times have changed and Kryten rightly notes that few people are now
in a position to follow the subject. Hence a lack of motivation
for authors to promulgate their enthusiasms amongst a wide
readership.
Agree. Nowadays "instant satisfaction" is the name of the game. The
common way for engineers to get to know a new

technology such as Bluetooth, is to buy a ready made module and use it
off the shelf. If you try to explain how

it all works in any detail, you lose your audience. Also, new
technology products are not only complex to

understand, but also pretty boring to describe. Part of the reason is
that they are designed by consortiums who

complicate the product and their functions no end.
For me, a big no-no, is any magazine article designed to provide an
'overview' of some technical product or process or technique. Unfortunately
there seems more and more of this type of article turning up in the (pay
for) magazines. Overviews are the easy bit and are not enough.
Mainly it is because it is copied from some other already existing
text. To write a decently descriptive article

on say how IEE802 works, you need several weeks research: decyphering
the standards, decoding the undocumented

bits, emailing people for information etc. Not far from the amount of
work needed for an MSc Thesis...

They seem to change EW editors every five minutes.
I think the main reason is that they are trying to increase
circulation figures (about 10-12k at present I guess)

The audience is there, cOnsidering the IEE has over 120k members. I
just don't know how these mags can be made

attractive to them.

What's sorely missing
from the mag' is some kind of continuity, like a monthly or even occasional,
Alastair Cooke style, Letter-from-the-trenches.
Maybe you can step onto the crease?.
There is something there. When I get the New Scientist, the first
thing I turn to is the "back page" In one of

the mags (Television I think) there used to be a column "a day in the
life of a service engineer" First thing I

used to read, quite readable it was too..
 
J

John Woodgate

Jan 1, 1970
0
I read in sci.electronics.design that ted <[email protected]>
wrote (in said:
In one of

the mags (Television I think) there used to be a column "a day in the
life of a service engineer" First thing I

used to read, quite readable it was too..

You mean 'What a Life!' by Donald Bullock? It's still there, but not
always at the back.
 
K

Kryten

Jan 1, 1970
0
So the first problem is the lack of quality writers.

I suspect that the population of good writers has not gone down too much.

However, if they are smart enough to write such articles they can also spot
that the payment divided by number of hours is less than minimum wage.

I think the main reason is that they are trying to increase
circulation figures (about 10-12k at present I guess)

I suspect there is no "they" to change editors,
total staff is unlikely to be more than the editor and a p.a.

Maybe people take on the business, find out how hard it is to fill the
magazine, then sell the business on a.s.a.p.

Svetlana has correctly observed that selling babble like the
magnetoaetherial tunnel and the Catt blather is not a viable long term
option. Selling trade press releases may not be either, since these are
given away in the free trade papers.

Maybe the readership has declined so far that there isn't enough money to
pay enough to entice people to write. Even if a staff of just two paid
themselves a modest 20K each, they'd need to make £4 on each of 10K mags
sold.

Perhaps we should ask the Audit Bureau of Circulation what the actual figure
is.

K.
 
J

John Woodgate

Jan 1, 1970
0
I read in sci.electronics.design that Kryten <kryten_droid_obfusticator@
I suspect there is no "they" to change editors,
total staff is unlikely to be more than the editor and a p.a.

There are a few more than that: about six on the masthead, including a
'Publishing Director' who is the real boss.
 
K

Kryten

Jan 1, 1970
0
There are a few more than that: about six on the masthead, including a
'Publishing Director' who is the real boss.

How many do practical work, and how many are just named because they own the
business?

I once worked at an engineering company with a managing director, financial
director (his wife), a sales director, a secretary, a one engineer (me).
Never work for a company with more people directing than doing...
 
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