heat pumps

[John Larkin]

Check out the exposure of the political dishonesty behind the claim that
Al Gore claimed to invent the internet, such as at snopes.com.

I conmsider that to be Republican distortion worse than that actually
committed by Al Gore here, since he was the main force in Congress working
to expand into what was then often called the "Information Superhighway"
from the Arpanet.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Gore#Internet_and_technology


John

 

[Jim Thompson]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Gore#Internet_and_technology


John

As if Wikipedia is a "consensus" source.

And then Gore "gave" us that piece-of-work, "An Inconvenient Truth".

...Jim Thompson

 

[krw]

It depends on where you live. In Sweden they have a lot of electricity
coming from dams. So electricity is cheap there.

Over here energy prices are grazy. We pay about 200 euro's per month
for electricity, heating and hot water (where I live all houses are
heated using cooling water from an electricity plant). I'm thinking
about getting a boiler which can use scrap wood or coal

Just got our electric bill for December. $225 for ~1900kWh or
about $.11/kWh. I don't think I'm going to like electric heat in
January and February. :-( More incentive to move on.

 

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

Check out the exposure of the political dishonesty behind the claim that
Al Gore claimed to invent the internet, such as at snopes.com.

I conmsider that to be Republican distortion worse than that actually
committed by Al Gore here, since he was the main force in Congress working
to expand into what was then often called the "Information Superhighway"
from the Arpanet.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])

I think what has the right wing-nuts so upset about Gore are his efforts
to turn the internet into a public right-of-way (analogous to the
Interstate Highway system) and deprive private enterprise from
monopolizing it as a means to distribute advertising and product.

 

[krw]

sci.electronics.design, To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-
Site.com says...

As if Wikipedia is a "consensus" source.

And then Gore "gave" us that piece-of-work, "An Inconvenient Truth".

I like Glenn Beck's choice for the title of his book "An
Inconvenient Book". ;-)

 

[krw]

I think what has the right wing-nuts so upset about Gore are his efforts
to turn the internet into a public right-of-way (analogous to the
Interstate Highway system) and deprive private enterprise from
monopolizing it as a means to distribute advertising and product.

It's a good thing all the "right wing-nuts" are in your head.

 

[Tim Williams]

It's a good thing all the "right wing-nuts" are in your head.

Left wing nuts don't fit on standard threads. ;-)

Tim

 

[Robert Latest]

Heat pumps were originally developed for refrigeration systems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refrigeration

The thermodynamics involved don't owe anything to fashion, as Jim
would know if he'd every done a science degree at respectable
institution.

Nah, a couple of undergraduate physics classes would do. In fact I learned
the basics of thermodynamics in high school.

robert

 

[Robert Latest]

"Heat pumps" are a result of the Al Gore School of "Consensus Science"

Only under ideal delta-T conditions do they perform remotely as
advertised.

Their use is indeed limited, but I don't think it ws Al Gore who invented
the underlying thermodynamics.

robert

 

[Robert Latest]

That also depends on where you put the reference. If the heater is
powered from nuclear energy, the efficiency is quite high. If the
electricity comes from a coal powered electricity plant, then the
efficiency is rather low.

How so?

robert

 

[Robert Latest]

The pervasive "heat pumps" found at everyone's home AREN'T. They're
cheap ass ways to generate heat from an assembly meant only to cool.
Their heating efficiency sucks.

I'm sure that's true, but so does their cooling efficiency.

Very few heat pumps really are heat pumps.

What's an example of a heat pump that isn't a heat pump? The "AC in reverse"
thingy certainly pumps some heat, while adding plenty of losses.

On "This Old House" I've seen some true heat pump designs.

The rest ARE INDEED "Typical BS from the Al Gore School of Consensus
Science".

Al Gore isn't one of the brightest, but does he indeed advertise running ACs
in reverse rather than well-insulated houses with a high-efficiency central
heating system?

robert

 

[Robert Latest]

I should have mentioned... my personal heat pump is so ludicrous it
has a sump heater... ponder that for awhile... that IS offensive ;-)

Your personal heat pump appears to be a model that pumps heat
from domestic trouble into Usenet.

robert

 

[Michael]

...A heat pump

pushes heat from outdoor ambient temp into the load to be heated, like
a house interior space.

???
Let's look at it this way.
A resistive heater takes XYZ Joules out of the wall outlet and gives
100% of it to the room it is in (we neglect wiring losses for now). I
do not see where else this energy can go.
A heat pump takes same XYZ Joules out of the wall outlet (OK, it's
hard wired, same thing). It cannot deliver 100% to the room (house)
because something will be lost to the (snowy, I am in New England)
outside.
How could a heat pump be more efficient heater then?

 

[[email protected]]

???
Let's look at it this way.
A resistive heater takes XYZ Joules out of the wall outlet and gives
100% of it to the room it is in (we neglect wiring losses for now). I
do not see where else this energy can go.
A heat pump takes same XYZ Joules out of the wall outlet (OK, it's
hard wired, same thing). It cannot deliver 100% to the room (house)
because something will be lost to the (snowy, I am in New England)
outside.
How could a heat pump be more efficient heater then?

Two pieces of advice.

Don't top post.

Learn some thermodynamics. The heat pump would take heat from your
snowy New England outdoors (leaving it even colder than it was before)
and deliver it inside your room. It uses the joules it gets from the
wall socket to extract rather more joules from the great outdoors and
deliver them indoors. It is exactly the same principle used to cool
the inside of your refrigerator by warming the radiating grid on the
back of the refrigerator.

 

[[email protected]]

It's a good thing all the "right wing-nuts" are in your head.

If only! I could more or less deal with imaginary lunatics, but the
kind that claim to have reported me to the FBI are less imaginary than
I'd like. Jim Thompson posted this gem here a while back.

"Nope. Since you have exhibited extreme anti-American behavior here
in
this newsgroup I simply pointed out said behavior to ICE and a few of
my friends within the FBI. "

That a right wing-nut case for you.

 

[Jim Thompson]

I think what has the right wing-nuts so upset about Gore are his efforts
to turn the internet into a public right-of-way (analogous to the
Interstate Highway system) and deprive private enterprise from
monopolizing it as a means to distribute advertising and product.

Nonsense. Gore claiming the Internet is like your professor putting
his name first on the paper YOU wrote.

...Jim Thompson

 

[Jim Thompson]

Their use is indeed limited, but I don't think it ws Al Gore who invented
the underlying thermodynamics.

robert

Of course not, I was just having fun with the "Al Gore School of
Consensus Science" ;-)

...Jim Thompson

 

[Jim Thompson]

How so?

robert

Not THAT is novel science ;-)

...Jim Thompson

 

[Richard Henry]

Nonsense. Gore claiming the Internet is like your professor putting
his name first on the paper YOU wrote.

Actually, it's like your professor saying "I assigned that project and gave
him an A on his paper".

Perhaps Jim is engaged in a pool to be the last neo-con to cite the
Al-Gore-invented-the-Internet myth.

 

[dlzc]

Dear Michael:

???
Let's look at it this way.
A resistive heater takes XYZ Joules out of the wall outlet
and gives 100% of it to the room it is in (we neglect wiring
losses for now). I do not see where else this energy can
go.

You will have some tiny amount radiated out as very long wavelength
radio waves, some energy dissipated making a weak magnetic field.

A heat pump takes same XYZ Joules out of the wall
outlet (OK, it's hard wired, same thing).

No, it draws XYZ / COP (COP = coefficient of perfomance) joules out of
the wall, and delivers XYZ joules to the room in the same period of
time as your "electric heater".

It cannot deliver 100% to the room (house)
because something will be lost to the (snowy, I am in
New England) outside. How could a heat pump be
more efficient heater then?

Because it produces *colder air* outside, moving that heat inside.

David A. Smith