Multiple magnets, one zone, EOL resistor. Never works!

[alarman]

This never seems to work properly for me. Here's what I do... am I
doing something wrong?
I want to secure, say, 4 windows with magnets. I take two wires from
the panel -- a green and yellow. The green wire goes uncut allllll the
way to the last magnet and I place an EOL resistor there and join it
with one lead on the last magnet. The yellow wire gets cut at each
window and a magnet is placed at each cut by simply splicing in the two
leads of the magnet. This is what I would call a series circuit. Now,
if I open any window, the circuit is open. If all windows are closed,
all magnets are closed and the circuit is closed with an EOL resistor
reading 2.2K ohms. I've checked this with a meter. All I have to do
is plug the green and yellow into a zone and program the panel that
it's a NC zone with an EOL resistor on it. Why does it always think
it's open? If I take the EOL resistor out and program the zone to have
NO EOL resistor then of course it works. What the heck am I doing
wrong??

What panel are you using?
js

 

[Total nerd]

This never seems to work properly for me. Here's what I do... am I
doing something wrong?
I want to secure, say, 4 windows with magnets. I take two wires from
the panel -- a green and yellow. The green wire goes uncut allllll the
way to the last magnet and I place an EOL resistor there and join it
with one lead on the last magnet. The yellow wire gets cut at each
window and a magnet is placed at each cut by simply splicing in the two
leads of the magnet. This is what I would call a series circuit. Now,
if I open any window, the circuit is open. If all windows are closed,
all magnets are closed and the circuit is closed with an EOL resistor
reading 2.2K ohms. I've checked this with a meter. All I have to do
is plug the green and yellow into a zone and program the panel that
it's a NC zone with an EOL resistor on it. Why does it always think
it's open? If I take the EOL resistor out and program the zone to have
NO EOL resistor then of course it works. What the heck am I doing
wrong??

 

[Crash Gordon]

You couldn't possibly be joining a lead to a magnet!


| This never seems to work properly for me. Here's what I do... am I
| doing something wrong?
| I want to secure, say, 4 windows with magnets. I take two wires from
| the panel -- a green and yellow. The green wire goes uncut allllll the
| way to the last magnet and I place an EOL resistor there and join it
| with one lead on the last magnet. The yellow wire gets cut at each
| window and a magnet is placed at each cut by simply splicing in the two
| leads of the magnet. This is what I would call a series circuit. Now,
| if I open any window, the circuit is open. If all windows are closed,
| all magnets are closed and the circuit is closed with an EOL resistor
| reading 2.2K ohms. I've checked this with a meter. All I have to do
| is plug the green and yellow into a zone and program the panel that
| it's a NC zone with an EOL resistor on it. Why does it always think
| it's open? If I take the EOL resistor out and program the zone to have
| NO EOL resistor then of course it works. What the heck am I doing
| wrong??
|
|

 

[Total nerd]

Napco Gemini P3200

 

[alarman]

Don't be silly. The magnet switch has two leads. I cut the yellow
wire and join one cut end with one lead and the other cut end with the
other lead. That makes the magnet complete the circuit or leave it
open, acting like a switch. Look, this stuff isn't rocket science, I
know how to make a magnet act like a switch in a series circuit, I just
don't think I fully understand what the panel is looking for when it
expects an EOL resistor in a series circuit. I show 2.2K ohms on the
meter when all switches are closed, but the panel thinks it's an open
zone?

Heh.
Nobody's being silly. You referred to a window contact as a magnet. It's
not. The magnet is what activates the contact. Everyone knew what you meant,
and most just overlook your clumsy grasp of the nomenclature since you are a
novice. Crash pointed out your mistake, in a good natured way IMO. Now you
come off like you were absolutely correct, and go right for the "it's not
rocket science" crap. You obviously still believe that a switch is a magnet,
or visa-versa, proving that you don't know what the **** you're doing. Or
maybe you can explain to us dummies how you can "make a magnet act like a
switch in a series circuit".
js

 

[Total nerd]

Don't be silly. The magnet switch has two leads. I cut the yellow
wire and join one cut end with one lead and the other cut end with the
other lead. That makes the magnet complete the circuit or leave it
open, acting like a switch. Look, this stuff isn't rocket science, I
know how to make a magnet act like a switch in a series circuit, I just
don't think I fully understand what the panel is looking for when it
expects an EOL resistor in a series circuit. I show 2.2K ohms on the
meter when all switches are closed, but the panel thinks it's an open
zone?

 

[Crash Gordon]

hey i was just kidding around.
you probably have something programmed incorrectly.


| Don't be silly. The magnet switch has two leads. I cut the yellow
| wire and join one cut end with one lead and the other cut end with the
| other lead. That makes the magnet complete the circuit or leave it
| open, acting like a switch. Look, this stuff isn't rocket science, I
| know how to make a magnet act like a switch in a series circuit, I just
| don't think I fully understand what the panel is looking for when it
| expects an EOL resistor in a series circuit. I show 2.2K ohms on the
| meter when all switches are closed, but the panel thinks it's an open
| zone?
|
|

 

[Rich]

That's the way I'd do it. If it works to the meter it must be in
programming. Is it on a delay or loop resonsive fast or slow mode?

 

[Bill]

Many of the panels I have worked on take a 1K ohm resistor.

Be sure you are using the correct value resistor for your panel.

Also try putting just a resistor (of correct value) on the terminals with
the wires removed.

When wiring a building/house, etc. It is a good idea to bring separate wires
to a junction point.

Then what you can do is first get just the resistor working on the panel.
Then add just one contact and get that working. Then add another and
another. (Isolate the problem...)

 

[alarman]

in his case I'd disconnect the loop and put the 2.2 right across the zone
and check programming and make that work before adding the loop back on.

I'm sure he already thought of that though. After all, "it's not rocket
science" you know.
js

 

[Crash Gordon]

I would still like to know how to: "...make a magnet act like a switch in a
series circuit..." but if I push the issue I guess I'd be being picky.



| "Look, this stuff isn't rocket science, I
| > know how to make a magnet act like a switch in a series circuit, I just
| > don't think I fully understand what the panel is looking for when it
| > expects an EOL resistor in a series circuit."
|
| Hmmmmmmmmmm, who's asking who about alarms??? You're right, it isn't
rocket
| science, you can figure it out on your own.....................
|
|
| | > Don't be silly. The magnet switch has two leads. I cut the yellow
| > wire and join one cut end with one lead and the other cut end with the
| > other lead. That makes the magnet complete the circuit or leave it
| > open, acting like a switch. Look, this stuff isn't rocket science, I
| > know how to make a magnet act like a switch in a series circuit, I just
| > don't think I fully understand what the panel is looking for when it
| > expects an EOL resistor in a series circuit. I show 2.2K ohms on the
| > meter when all switches are closed, but the panel thinks it's an open
| > zone?
| >
|
|

 

[Crash Gordon]

in his case I'd disconnect the loop and put the 2.2 right across the zone
and check programming and make that work before adding the loop back on.


| Many of the panels I have worked on take a 1K ohm resistor.
|
| Be sure you are using the correct value resistor for your panel.
|
| Also try putting just a resistor (of correct value) on the terminals with
| the wires removed.
|
| When wiring a building/house, etc. It is a good idea to bring separate
wires
| to a junction point.
|
| Then what you can do is first get just the resistor working on the panel.
| Then add just one contact and get that working. Then add another and
| another. (Isolate the problem...)
|
|

 

[[email protected]]

nah, trow it away and buy a dog.

 

[Total nerd]

Yeah, that's a good idea -- I simply shorted all the window contacts
together and pulled the wires off the panel. I measures 2.2K ohms on
the meter. Then, one at a time, I disconnected each window contact, to
assure myself that it indeed produced an open circuit, and it did. So
either: you're right and the value of the resistor is not compatible
with the panel, or the panel programming is wrong, or some other
outside force is influencing my zone such as the phase of the moon or
number of resident aliens in the local area.
One question, though: If I cut the yellow wire for each window switch,
should the EOL resistor be placed on the same yellow wire before the
last switch, or on the green uncut wire just after the last switch?

 

[Total nerd]

Give me a break. You guys are completely incapable of having a
sensible discussion. You're so good at dishing it out but you can't
take it at all. Yes, I'm a homeowner and no I'm not a professional,
and yes I mistakingly used the word Magnet instead of Switch, and yes I
also know how it works and what the magnet does. You guys are so full
of yourselves that you need to pick on someone like me simply because I
used the wrong word, not realizing that the mere fact so many DIY can
handle a small home alarm installation proves that being an alarm
professional doesn't require too much more knowledge, and as the years
progress this stuff will only become easier for the average person to
install, not harder, and your attitude will fade. The truth is, the
question, regardless of the improper terminology, is valid and you all
knew what I meant. I presume, without being too bold, that if
"alarman" said something like "... so I hooked up the magnet to zone
1..." no one would beat him up for it because we all know what he means
and we're all above that petty crap. Nevertheless, continuing this
would be futile and a waste of this newsgroup, so I've said my peace.
Thank all of you who treat this newsgroup as a shared informational
space, not a kindergarten arena.

 

[Bill]

in message


I'm sure he already thought of that though. After all, "it's not rocket
science" you know.

Probably not. Most people I know who are new to the alarm business are not
good at troubleshooting problems. It is something which needs to be learned
(and taught).

Many experienced alarm techs that I have known are quite helpful, will give
detailed advice, training, etc.

The best troubleshooting tip I have been taught, is if you have multiple
contacts (say 15), and something is not working, try testing half the loop
and see if that half works. If it does, then test half of the remaining
loop, etc.

And if you have a situation where there is "one wire" following around the
perimeter of a building going to this contact and that contact as it travels
around, and there is an open somewhere, then just run a wire from the panel
as you walk around to various contacts and test each point along the loop.

Or invest in a phone company type wiring "tone generator" if you are in the
repair end of things and need to do this frequently...

 

[Crash Gordon]

oh stop being so sensitive...we have to have fun somewhere...consider it
dues you pay for real and free advice recieved here.


| Give me a break. You guys are completely incapable of having a
| sensible discussion. You're so good at dishing it out but you can't
| take it at all. Yes, I'm a homeowner and no I'm not a professional,
| and yes I mistakingly used the word Magnet instead of Switch, and yes I
| also know how it works and what the magnet does. You guys are so full
| of yourselves that you need to pick on someone like me simply because I
| used the wrong word, not realizing that the mere fact so many DIY can
| handle a small home alarm installation proves that being an alarm
| professional doesn't require too much more knowledge, and as the years
| progress this stuff will only become easier for the average person to
| install, not harder, and your attitude will fade. The truth is, the
| question, regardless of the improper terminology, is valid and you all
| knew what I meant. I presume, without being too bold, that if
| "alarman" said something like "... so I hooked up the magnet to zone
| 1..." no one would beat him up for it because we all know what he means
| and we're all above that petty crap. Nevertheless, continuing this
| would be futile and a waste of this newsgroup, so I've said my peace.
| Thank all of you who treat this newsgroup as a shared informational
| space, not a kindergarten arena.
|

 

[Crash Gordon]

Well...what value resistor does whatever panel you are installing call for?
Ademco uses 1K or 2K, some other panels may have one value for a burg zone
and a DIFFERENT value for a fire zone.


| Yeah, that's a good idea -- I simply shorted all the window contacts
| together and pulled the wires off the panel. I measures 2.2K ohms on
| the meter. Then, one at a time, I disconnected each window contact, to
| assure myself that it indeed produced an open circuit, and it did. So
| either: you're right and the value of the resistor is not compatible
| with the panel, or the panel programming is wrong, or some other
| outside force is influencing my zone such as the phase of the moon or
| number of resident aliens in the local area.
| One question, though: If I cut the yellow wire for each window switch,
| should the EOL resistor be placed on the same yellow wire before the
| last switch, or on the green uncut wire just after the last switch?
|

 

[alarman]

Give me a break. You guys are completely incapable of having a
sensible discussion. You're so good at dishing it out but you can't
take it at all. Yes, I'm a homeowner and no I'm not a professional,
and yes I mistakingly used the word Magnet instead of Switch, and yes I
also know how it works and what the magnet does. You guys are so full
of yourselves that you need to pick on someone like me simply because I
used the wrong word, not realizing that the mere fact so many DIY can
handle a small home alarm installation proves that being an alarm
professional doesn't require too much more knowledge, and as the years
progress this stuff will only become easier for the average person to
install, not harder, and your attitude will fade. The truth is, the
question, regardless of the improper terminology, is valid and you all
knew what I meant. I presume, without being too bold, that if
"alarman" said something like "... so I hooked up the magnet to zone
1..." no one would beat him up for it because we all know what he means
and we're all above that petty crap. Nevertheless, continuing this
would be futile and a waste of this newsgroup, so I've said my peace.
Thank all of you who treat this newsgroup as a shared informational
space, not a kindergarten arena.

Uh, lemme guess...you're a network enginer. Right? Jeez you guys are
predictable.
js

 

[alarman]

in message

Probably not. Most people I know who are new to the alarm business are not
good at troubleshooting problems. It is something which needs to be learned
(and taught).

Many experienced alarm techs that I have known are quite helpful, will give
detailed advice, training, etc.

Hey, Mr. Bill
Most of us will help too, it just gets a little old when one of these types
starts with the attitude. On one hand, he doesnt grasp the simplest concepts
relating to his security system, but on the other hand, "it's not rocket
science." Tell you what...give ME a break, huh?
js