Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E

[Andrew]

Or the 100Mhz version is up to snuff but overpriced? is that not an
option? In fact, it seems like the most likely case. It is been a well
used marketing ploy to bring in extra revenues.

It is funny to watch people who feel "cheated" by "overpriced" Rigol units.

Rigol sells unit X with capabilities Y at price Z.

The only thing they have no right to do is to sell unit that does not work
as advertized.
It may or may not work better.

If you do not like the price you do not buy it. buy somebody else's or not
buy at all. End of story.

Rigol does not owe you or anybody else anything.
If they want to add 10MHz limiter and sell this new 10MHz unit, it is their
choice, not yours and definitely not mine.

For example, it would be like paying for an upgrade to first class when
all seats are first class. Of course to get you to buy the upgrade they
tell you that coach sucks and is for losers and only intelligent and
beautiful people go first class.

Bla-bla-bla.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Andrew = Damn LIAR"

It is funny to watch people who feel "cheated" by "overpriced" Rigol
units.

** Not one person here is doing that.

You LYING PILE of ARROGANT SHIT !!!



..... Phil

 

[Andrew]

How about selling an "upgrade" to Rigol scopes?

Sure. I *believe* everyone who has not signed "not to sell an upgrade"
agreement with Rigol has the right to do it, because he does not violate any
contracts.

Again, I am not talking about current laws.

 

[Andrew]

Lawyers certainly do attack software users for misuse of their
products, wherever they purchased them. Autodesk did it to us;
fortunately we had done nothing wrong and their lawyer was stupid to
boot. When instruments become software-driven, they may well be
subject to the legal provisions that protect software.

Only if you signed an agreemnt to that effect during purchase.

 

[George Jefferson]

It is funny to watch people who feel "cheated" by "overpriced" Rigol
units.

Rigol sells unit X with capabilities Y at price Z.

The only thing they have no right to do is to sell unit that does not work
as advertized.
It may or may not work better.

If you do not like the price you do not buy it. buy somebody else's or not
buy at all. End of story.

Rigol does not owe you or anybody else anything.
If they want to add 10MHz limiter and sell this new 10MHz unit, it is
their choice, not yours and definitely not mine.

Do they not owe me honesty? Do they have a right to lie to me so they can
benefit themselves? If so then then your world is a sorry piece of shit and
people like you are the reasons why the world sucks. Your mentality always
leads to cheating then to stealing and much worse things. You can't lie a
little to benefit yourselves and hurt others in the process and expect that
it will result in a humanity that will go very far. Eventually you'll end up
with some form of anarchy because everyone is trying to hurt everyone else.

This is what capitalism has turned into. People like you have abused and
manipulated a perfectly good system(but structurally faulty because it does
nothing to prevent it from being corrupted by your kind). Because you live
such a pathetic existence you put no value in humanity. It's all about you
isn't it? It's called NPD and you might want to get some meds for it.

Rigol does owe me something. They owe me honesty. In fact we have laws
against such fraudulent practices and you can pretend all you want that we
don't. Your no different than a common crook and I bet you "sell" stuff on
ebay to make a living. The kinda person that sends you a box of rocks when
they were suppose to ship you a computer. Does it make you feel good taking
advantage of people? Do you feel powerful? Does it make up for your all the
other things you suck at in life?

How you going to feel when your daughter is taken advantage of by someone
like you? I bet you will enjoy it? You'll probably picture yourself doing
her. In fact you've probably already done her since you care nothing about
her or anyone else. What about when your wife is killed by a drunk, no
doubt like yourself, that only cares about getting wasted every weekend and
disregards every one else's safety?

Of course I have no doubt that it wouldn't bother you unless in some way it
diminished your own self-gratification. Of course as long as you can do that
to other people it's fine.

People like you have a mental disorder and it seems the only sure fire way
to prevent you from negatively affecting humanity(which is much more
important than your pathetic useless existence) is by removing all brain
activity... Of course we'll need to find it first.

 

[George Jefferson]

Sure. I *believe* everyone who has not signed "not to sell an upgrade"
agreement with Rigol has the right to do it, because he does not violate
any contracts.

Again, I am not talking about current laws.

Hmm.. so Rigol does not have an implicit contract with it's customers?

From there website:

"RIGOL TECHNOLOGIES, INC. is an emerging leader in the test and measurement
field. Our current product line consists of Digital Oscilloscopes,
Function/Arbitrary Waveform Generators, Digital Multimeters, Virtual
Instruments with LXI compatibility and more.
Business Philosophy: Focus on our customers current and future needs by
creating innovative, high quality products that deliver great value. "

So by "focus" and "needs" they mean cheat and lie? Oh, this isn't a legal
contract, right? is that what you are going to hide behind? Do implicit
moral and/or ethical contracts exist? No, why not? Are you in favor of
having them? No? Why not?

So, what about this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unjust_enrichment

 

[Phil Allison]

"George Jefferson" >

"Andrew"

Do they not owe me honesty? Do they have a right to lie to me so they can
benefit themselves? If so then then your world is a sorry piece of shit
and people like you are the reasons why the world sucks. Your mentality
always leads to cheating then to stealing and much worse things. You can't
lie a little to benefit yourselves and hurt others in the process and
expect that it will result in a humanity that will go very far. Eventually
you'll end up with some form of anarchy because everyone is trying to hurt
everyone else.

This is what capitalism has turned into. People like you have abused and
manipulated a perfectly good system(but structurally faulty because it
does nothing to prevent it from being corrupted by your kind). Because
you live such a pathetic existence you put no value in humanity. It's all
about you isn't it? It's called NPD and you might want to get some meds
for it.

Rigol does owe me something. They owe me honesty. In fact we have laws
against such fraudulent practices and you can pretend all you want that we
don't. Your no different than a common crook and I bet you "sell" stuff on
ebay to make a living. The kinda person that sends you a box of rocks when
they were suppose to ship you a computer. Does it make you feel good
taking advantage of people? Do you feel powerful? Does it make up for
your all the other things you suck at in life?

How you going to feel when your daughter is taken advantage of by someone
like you? I bet you will enjoy it? You'll probably picture yourself doing
her. In fact you've probably already done her since you care nothing about
her or anyone else. What about when your wife is killed by a drunk, no
doubt like yourself, that only cares about getting wasted every weekend
and disregards every one else's safety?

Of course I have no doubt that it wouldn't bother you unless in some way
it diminished your own self-gratification. Of course as long as you can do
that to other people it's fine.

People like you have a mental disorder and it seems the only sure fire way
to prevent you from negatively affecting humanity(which is much more
important than your pathetic useless existence) is by removing all brain
activity... Of course we'll need to find it first.

** That took so much longer than my pithy " You lying pile of arrogant shit
" assessment.

But maybe it was worthwhile for the additional detail and explanations.

All water off a duck's back to the likes of Andrew, unfortunately.



...... Phil

 

[Andrew]

Do they not owe me honesty?

Wher is the dishonesty on Rigol side?

Do they have a right to lie to me so they can benefit themselves?

Where did they lie?

It's all about you isn't it?

Yes, it is all about me. It is always about "me" for everyone, including
you.

<snip>

Wow, you've got a really powerful stuff somewhere, haven't you?

Should I feel pity or envy? I am not really sure...

 

[Andrew]

World would be a better place.

The idea of patents is to make it attractive for people to disclose their
trade secrets, and that makes the art advance.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

17 years in US, for starters, is way too long. Patents often used to lock
competitors out, thus artificially decresing efficiency.
Etc, etc.

 

[Andrew]

The usual presumption for different prices is that
different COSTS are involved.

Wrong.
Supply - demand + goverment intervention.
Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[[email protected]]

World would be a better place.



The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

17 years in US, for starters, is way too long.

Your opinion. BTW, you're 20 years out of date. Patents run for twenty years
from the time of application but must be renewed several times during that
period (or they expire before the twenty years).

Patents often used to lock competitors out, thus artificially decresing efficiency.

That's their *purpose*. For a legal monopoly the inventor trades education in
the art. Without something to gain there would be no reason to publish
details, rather keep them as trade secrets. This approach didn't work out so
well in the early industrial revolution. It's a good idea to research the
alternatives before condemning the existing.

 

[Fred Abse]

What's a fair price for IP that costs nothing to manufacture?

Development costs, amortized over the quantity of product sold, plus
overhead and profit.

 

[Fred Abse]

Once a scope is in my posession, converting it to 100 MHz does Rigol no
economic harm. Dave's posting detailed hacking directions to the world
does them real harm, and they may have legal recourse.

That's the crux of the issue.

 

[markp]

That's the crux of the issue.

But what they get if they modify it is *not* the same as the 100MHz 'scope
that they could buy. At best it is something that may be OK, without any
guarantees. They may also void their warranty on the 50MHz version they
bought as well. I don't think Rigol sell a 'it might be 100MHz but we won't
guarantee it and you have no warranty at all' 'scope, so exactly what
economic harm is done? Thay *can't buy* what they are modifying this to be.

Information itself is not dangerous, it's what people do with it that might
be.

Mark.

 

[Fred Abse]

But what they get if they modify it is *not* the same as the 100MHz 'scope
that they could buy. At best it is something that may be OK, without any
guarantees. They may also void their warranty on the 50MHz version they
bought as well. I don't think Rigol sell a 'it might be 100MHz but we won't
guarantee it and you have no warranty at all' 'scope, so exactly what
economic harm is done? Thay *can't buy* what they are modifying this to be.

Information itself is not dangerous, it's what people do with it that might
be.

Read John's post again. The economic harm is done when someone buys the
50MHz version, intending to modify it, when in the absence of the
disseminated information, they would have bought the more expensive
instrument.

The moral thing would be to have announced that "We have discovered that
the two instruments are electrically identical, and it is possible to
modify the 50MHz version, in firmware, to behave identically to the 100MHz
version. We are not disclosing how to do this. We invite comments from the
manufacturer."

 

[[email protected]]

Development costs, amortized over the quantity of product sold, plus
overhead and profit.

Ok, you've defined profit, but I'll ask Larkin's question again. What's a
fair price for IP that costs nothing to manufacture?

 

[fritz]

But what they get if they modify it is *not* the same as the 100MHz 'scope
that they could buy. At best it is something that may be OK, without any
guarantees.

At best ? You don't seem to have been following this thread...
It is bleedingly obvious that it was IDENTICAL from the
simplicity of the hack that has been explained in detail, and the
fact that Rigol THEMSELVES have conceded it is only firmware.
And if there are any warranty problems, you can always revert to the
original setup data anyway. Nobody at Rigol will ever know!

They may also void their warranty on the 50MHz version they bought as well.
I don't think Rigol sell a 'it might be 100MHz but we won't guarantee it
and you have no warranty at all' 'scope, so exactly what economic harm is
done? Thay *can't buy* what they are modifying this to be.

Information itself is not dangerous, it's what people do with it that
might be.

I hope you are also protesting that against that fuckwit religious nutter
Conroy
who is trying to impose his own idea of Sharia law i.e. cripple the
Internet
for Aussie users.

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2138157.htm
Conroy is a buffoon propped up by the religious right (wrong!),
you don't have to look too far to see that his stupid method
of 100% religious censorship is a fucking joke. A complete failure.
https://www.ultravpn.fr/

 

[Fred Abse]

Ok, you've defined profit, but I'll ask Larkin's question again. What's a
fair price for IP that costs nothing to manufacture?

No, I defined pricing, not profit,

 

[Fred Abse]

I hope you are also protesting that against that fuckwit religious nutter
Conroy
who is trying to impose his own idea of Sharia law i.e. cripple the
Internet
for Aussie users.

I wonder if that includes altering "Subject:" headers.

;-)

 

[markp]

Read John's post again. The economic harm is done when someone buys the
50MHz version, intending to modify it, when in the absence of the
disseminated information, they would have bought the more expensive
instrument.

Again, what they get when modifying it is *not* a guaranteed 100MHz scope.
What they may have bought instead of the 50MHz version is not the same, they
would need to pay for a guaranteed scope. They are quite entitled to buy a
50MHz scope and run it out of scec.

The moral thing would be to have announced that "We have discovered that
the two instruments are electrically identical, and it is possible to
modify the 50MHz version, in firmware, to behave identically to the 100MHz
version. We are not disclosing how to do this. We invite comments from the
manufacturer."

But at no point does anyone say that this mod equals the real thing, only
that it 'appears' to be the same thing.

If you're saying that it is OK for someone to discover how to modify their
own equipment and then run out of spec but not OK to tell others how to do
it, then surely all those websites that provide financial information as to
how to move their money around with credit cards and hence pay less interest
are also wrong, after all you could discover how to do that yourself. In
either case the results are legal.

Mark.