Bypass motor on motor help

[bline22]

The Elliptical is an Octane Q47e. let me know if the information on the motors is a bit clearer as far as voltage and model and stuff goes.

I don't have a diode check range that i know of i guess. I have only a slight idea of what a diode is and I don't see one of those on this little green board unless there is one inside of that little black thing on the back of it. I am including a picture front and back of that green board i am talking about.

I tried flipping the polarity with no luck. i verified i was even getting power to via the wires i was using and it was showing power so that was good. I tried a number of different times in different ways and nothing. I then thought perhaps i put a wrong screw or something in and maybe it was jamming the gears up or something not allowing it to move. So i took it all the way down to the gears again and tried to apply power and it worked spinning the whole unit. So i decided this time I would place the 2 screws back in to hold the gearbox cover on and put the magnet that is part of the reed switch and again nothing. took it back down to the gears as i had done prior and tried over and over and nothing. I spent about an hour trying different things and nothing. I have to be missing something but i have no idea what i did differently getting it to work that one time.

Here are a series of pictures of the motor as well as the main board that this all goes in to. I don't think it is an issue though as prior i have been leaving this unplugged while testing.

I wonder if like you said Minder, if i reached a limit or something and it is stuck but i would have guessed flipping polarity would have reversed it perhaps. Also, i am not sure without being connected to the main board how would it know it is at any limit? I will send the picture of the main board but don't want to get you guys confused either as like i said this has been disconnected when testing but purely want to display it for your reference.

I will also put a picture here of the motor on the side that is working that you might get an idea how this works.

What next do you guys think?

 

[73's de Edd]

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Sir bline22 . . . .
Now . . . with your provided model info I was getting an initial referencing knowledge base of 268 hits and then subdividing those on down and weeding to ~127.

https://www.google.com/search?q=octane+q47e+elliptical+trainer&biw=1920&bih=932&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj92oKmm9LQAhXJiFQKHc3CAsoQ_AUIBygC#tbm=isch&q=octane+"q47e"+elliptical+trainer

I immediately see the 18-26 " stride . . . . .where upon this unit, just might be finding either a big ole "Too Tall Jones" or, an opposite, quite petite , feminine "Twiggy" using the machine .
PLUS this stride aspect must tie directly into the function of the application of the linear actuator.

AHAAAAA . . .we now get to see more of your unit . . . a la photo sets of # 41.

And I had just marked up the photo below, relating to Linear Actuator BLUE star, but had not seen those photos yet.
BUT do use it to digest the full explanations of a magnetic reed switch.

You make note of the screwdriver not triggering the limit switches, but that situation would only pertain if you had DC battery power connected up to the RED and BLACK wires of the connector that you show being unplugged from the control board.

If you have the DC battery power connected to the RED and BLACK/BROWN connector of the motor proper, it should be running all of the time that you have battery power connected to it there.
Another consideration is the state of charge of the test battery that you are using as well as the voltage drop involved with those dual clip test leads that you are using.
Convention marketed units have fewer strands of lighter gauge wire inside them, than you typically are really expecting them to have.
Oftimes I feel them warming up on me, or at times, of larger loading, I have even had them vaporize within the insulation.
SOOOOOOO . . . when you have the motor running, take a voltage check right at the motor terminals to see what the REAL drive voltage level there is being.
BUTTTTTTT . . . . . on one photo where you are connecting power into the motor terminal board proper, I see the use of probably 14 ga solid copper and merely using the clips as clamps . . . .thats proper.
So can that unit be run between its extremes or is there being a friction or jamming involved at some point, considering maintaining a full 12 VDC supply at all times.

Ref Photo:
73s de Edd

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[bline22]

Are you thinking i should be using the stranded wire vs. this about 14ga (i think that is a good guess) wire? I am not sure i followed that portion of your response.

I think you might be on to something with the voltage drop stuff but i have to admit i am not fully certain what that means but here is what i was finding. If i were a guessing man it means that there is not enough voltage perhaps to power the unit.

This battery was one of those trolling motor batteries and is used for one of those battery powered sump pumps or was. i have had the charger on this thing throughout troubleshooting this. At times I would get about 13.6 volts or so with it charging it and nothing plugged in.

I decided to hook this up the same way i have, take the cover back of the motor exposing the 2 connectors to the motor to see if any power was actually making it to the motor. I put charger to it and checked the voltage at those 2 spots and it was at 3volts and would jump to 5 sometimes then down to 2. it was sort of all over the place but not 13 or anywhere near.

I unplugged the charger and would also try it to notice that it was half the above at best.

To me this is telling me the battery is shot as I would guess i should be expecting a consistent min 12 volts constant right?

The odd thing though is that at times throughout this i would check the voltage where i have those clips and it would read 13.5 or so. not sure what i was doing different though.

Is the battery bad i need to get another to try is that what is going on here?

 

[bline22]

So i had one additional thought that i would try now that i have learned a few things through the course of this.

I had my wife come down and i did a quick check of the voltage coming to the red and brown wires to see if the main board is sending anything back. It did show that it was sending various voltages back the highest being about 19 volts. do you think the issue here is the reed switch? based on the pictures @73s de Edd sent it seems if stuck it might prevent power if stuck in the off position is that possible? if the reed switch is triggered by the magent does it turn it off an don and off an on and if so why does it do that? Maybe @Minder that is what you were saying that you would see voltages pulse.

Also, thanks @73s de Edd for how you would fix that plastic piece. I think that could work if i find that that is causing an issue.

 

[bline22]

One additional thing to add the above and for some reason i can't edit the above.

I tested the voltage between the red and black wires on the motor as well so the cover was off and it was vary between 10 and 16 it seemed so it also seems that the motor is getting power but not turning.

What the heck is going on do you think?

 

[73's de Edd]

I tested the voltage between the red and black wires on the motor as well so the cover was off and it was vary between 10 and 16

What was the source of that voltage ?

That trolling ? motor battery sounds like its not taking nor holding a charge. Is it a wet cell lead acid battery.?

 

[bline22]

Sorry, i should have put that in here. The source was from me plugging the motor back in to the main board and plugging the machine in.

I think you are exactly right and the way i feel. The battery is pretty old i would guess a good 10 years. Not sure on the type but i will do some checking to see if i can find that out and edit the response here.

 

[Minder]

Are you saying that the source is the board motor power and the motor is not moving? Either the motor is jammed, it is at the extent of its move, or there is an open circuit.
Did you observe the polarity of this voltage? then maybe test with a battery using the same polarity, then the opposite polarity if the motor does not move.
M.

 

[bline22]

RIght. The source is the board motor and it is not moving. Forgot that perhaps I need to still try and switch the polarity so will still need the battery. Was trying to figure out how to do this since it seems the extra battery i have is shot and the only others are in cars.

How do i identify the polarity?

Seems to be an acid battery

would my lawn tractor battery work? it is a small garden tractor with a small battery in there but would be easier to remove then one of the car batteries.

 

[Minder]

Measure the polarity fed from the machine, the positive does not indicate, but when measuring a neg voltage it will show up with a - sign means if you have the positive meter lead on the negative.
The battery normally has it on it, or at least a red on the Pos terminal.
Otherwise identify it with a meter the same way.
M.

 

[bline22]

Polarity from the machine was reversed it seemed as when I did a positive to positive it was negative on the meter.

I see what you are saying now with no symbol and then a negative. Thanks.

I took the motor off the mower and it is now a consistent 12 volts which is better so that problem identified and resolved it seems. Also, it spun the motor the first time which was create. Then i pulled the negative off and tried it again to spin the same way and it did not work. I flipped the polarity wondering if we were at an extreme and nothing. couldn't get it to go again. Then i took a pliers to the top of that threaded rod to spin that to see if i needed to prime it for lack of better term. It started spinning again.

I can get it both ways in the video but then can't get it started again even though you can see there is power going to the board.

The motor does work it seems. is it getting stuck that it seems if i crank that rod around once it will usually start again?

Thoughts?

does the video help that i should do these instead?

 

[Minder]

There appears to be something mechanically binding., some thing is jamming up on reversal,
When you try it in reverse and it does not turn, do you have a current range on the meter you can try, also is there a spark on the terminal when you connect the clip?
M.

 

[73's de Edd]

Okay, here is what I am seeing , when you initially hook up to the battery, the linear actuator screw is then running continually in that one direction and would probably keep running forever if you left the battery connection made there.
Then, you reverse the battery connections, and the unit runs for possibly 1 1/2 turns in the opposite direction and then stops . Yet, when you first detected the unit having then stopped, you go over and measure at the motor terminals and you see that there is twelve volts being present there .

My question now is, if you look at the four wire harness that is connected to the motor assembly and goes over to the control electronics, is that harness presently unplugged from the main unit? If not, can you unplug it and repeat your same test again, in order to see, if that then, the motor will run for an unlimited time in that previous problematic direction?

Also, from my researching aspect, in looking over at the control board, where the two linear actuators connectors plug in, there are two hefty integrated circuits beside each one of them .
Since I see no additional HEAVY discrete power semiconductors in that proximity, therefore, they must be incorporating all of the power drive, switching and " brains " control aspect of each actuator, with the exception of a few external start and stop or feed back functions .
Can you pass me their marked on identification data ?


73's de Edd

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[bline22]

@Minder. I do not see a spark when i touch it but i wonder if that battery is running low. I am putting a charge to it now and will try again. Maybe I should turn the lights down and see if i can see the spark with the lights lower?

@73s de Edd the wire harness is not plugged into the main board. Maybe the below will answer your question too.

What i tried next was to hook it all up and it did not turn. while plugged in i grabbed the pliers and gave it a turn to see if it would trigger the motor starting and it did and i let it run for probably a good minute without it stopping. I could tell the battery was then getting low i think or the motor was starting to make a slightly different sound and slow. Another way i got it to trigger was grabbing hold of that white thing on the top and turning it slightly.

Does that help guys. I sure i hope i answer all your questions or comments. Sometimes i admit i am not fully understanding simply due to inexperience. Appreciate you guys sticking this out with me.

 

[Minder]

You need to make sure the test battery is good, (check the voltage when on the motor).
It seems to come down to a couple of things, either low voltage or mech. sticking/jamming.
Although if the problem is the same with the board power applied, it looks mechanical.
Do you have the meter current range I mentioned?
A motor like that with very little load should have no problem turning, even at low voltage.
M.

 

[bline22]

OK. i will give it a go again when i get that battery charged to make sure that is not contributing to the issue.

I am not sure what a meter current range is. is that simply a setting on my meter or a separate tool? you don't think i simply need to add some oil or grease to it? When i throw a current to it again and if it does it again i might open up the gear box again and pull out a gear or two to see if there is some issue that I can see there.

When you say low voltage do you mean perhaps the main board not providing enough voltage?

 

[Minder]

Current range on the meter measures actual motor current, when used, the leads are place in series with one of the motor leads.
If you pull a couple of gears out, check for foreign matter in the G.B. and add some fresh grease, maybe.Also rotate it in both directions to detect any binding.
M.

 

[bline22]

Can one use any sort of grease or do i have to get special stuff?

 

[Minder]

For those rpm's any general purpose or G.B. grease is fine, even white grease should be be fine.
The important thing is the absence of foreign matter.
M.

 

[73's de Edd]

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Sir bline22 . . . . .

I just wanted to be sure that the plug was not installed as it could nullify the operations that you were trying
I did research that CRAFTSMAN instrument that you are using and yes, it does have a 10 ampere DC current measuring capability .
You rotate the selector just pass the 3 o'clock position until you see a SILVER 10 and leave it at that posiion.
.
Additionally you unplug the right red connector and plug it in again at the far left SILVER connector of the three connectors at the bottom of the meter.
You are now in D.C. CURRENT measuring mode and you will use the two major probes being in series with the supply voltage.

In your prior motor run test procedure, you would be connecting one wire to a terminal of the storage battery but the other lead that would have gone straight to the other battery terminal is now having the meter leads in series.
In looking at the gauge of wire being used on the armature rotor. I would guesstimate a 5 amp start up curent pull and then a drop to the vicinity of 2 amps after the motor starts rotating.Take note of those figures for us.
AND THEN there is the opposite direction of rotation with the reversal of battery polarity applied. We want to take particular note of the start up current pull and then the running current after start up and IF the current just drops to zero at the point where the motor is stopping.
I just cant visualise any plausible cause . . .be it . . . either electrical or mechanical . . . for this discriminating / fault of the run time in the reverse direction.


73 s de Edd