TO-220 Failures due to lead bending?

[Brian]

Like you, not posting anything at all in this thread that is
contributory in nature. It is the same story for you everywhere.

Roy, EVERY thread you are in you act the same. You have issues. Real issues.
Hope maybe you could see yourself a bit in what I did and see how dumb it
really is.

 

[Roy L. Fuchs]

With no clean, you just must use compatible processes all through production
for it to perform well.

No conformally coated assemblies or encapsulated HV assemblies can
use it, however. At least not correctly. It WILL fail.

Just like you have.

 

[Roy L. Fuchs]

Roy, EVERY thread you are in you act the same. You have issues. Real issues.
Hope maybe you could see yourself a bit in what I did and see how dumb it
really is.

You're an idiot. As well as being a wussy.

 

[John Larkin]

With no clean, you just must use compatible processes all through production
for it to perform well. Don't do touch up with water soluable and expect to
even spot wash it. If you conformal coat, you must use a water based one.
Basically, you just have to respect what it is, controlled, encapsulated
residue. Most people that have issues with it muck it up themselves by
treating it incorrectly.

Some of our mil customers require silicone coating, since most of the
other things are fungus nutrients.

I think we'll stick to RMA flux and solvent cleaning, but it's hard to
find assemblers that still do this.

John

 

[Brian]

Some of our mil customers require silicone coating, since most of the
other things are fungus nutrients.

I think we'll stick to RMA flux and solvent cleaning, but it's hard to
find assemblers that still do this.

John

Even harder to find assemblers that use it and do it well!!

 

[Brian]

for it to perform well.

No conformally coated assemblies or encapsulated HV assemblies can
use it, however. At least not correctly. It WILL fail.

Just like you have.

Stick to stupid comments, cuz you are just wrong.

There are PLENTY of water based conformal coatings that work very well,
along with potting compounds. I have manufactured HV boards that are potted
and they work very well, using 100% no-clean compatible processes. You are
just wrong, Roy.

And there are silicone

 

[John Larkin]

Even harder to find assemblers that use it and do it well!!

The irony is that our little internal operation does it very well, and
that the contract assemblers are the ones that mess up.

John

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

The irony is that our little internal operation does it very well, and
that the contract assemblers are the ones that mess up.

John

What's the downside for them vs. for you?


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

 

[Roy L. Fuchs]

Some of our mil customers require silicone coating, since most of the
other things are fungus nutrients.

I think we'll stick to RMA flux and solvent cleaning, but it's hard to
find assemblers that still do this.

John

Since conformal coating is meant to be a moisture barrier as well as
an electrically insulative shield, I doubt that a water based version
can even actually be qualified by a mil contractor or any real
commercial contractor with any brains.

It even sounds stupid... "Water based conformal coating".

Hahahahaah... yeah... sure... :-]

If this guy is so smart lets see if he can tell us what the ONLY
encapsulant approved by NASA for HV circuitry is.

One clue... It is NOT water based, and it will not pass muster if
"no clean" fluxes are used. The PCB assembly has to be VERY clean,
totally free of VOCs, and vacuum and heat baked first.

 

[Roy L. Fuchs]

Even harder to find assemblers that use it and do it well!!

You must be hiring dipshits as retarded as you are.

Get some HR screening in your life, boy. Stop trying to hire zero
experience crapsters just to save a couple bucks an hour, and deliver
a poorer product to your customers.

 

[Roy L. Fuchs]

Stick to stupid comments, cuz you are just wrong.

cuz? You aren't a business owner with CRAP lingo like that. You
are an inspector, at best. And a poor one at that.

That is aside from the FACT that you don't know what the **** you are
talking about.

There are PLENTY of water based conformal coatings that work very well,
along with potting compounds.

That's NOT what I said, you retarded twit. I SAID that NO CLEAN
fluxes leave residues that cause the desired effect of a conformal
coating or encapsulant to give rise to failure modes.

One cannot attach to a liquidous media, ducmbfuck. The ENTIRE key
of an encapsulant or coating is INTIMATE contact, and adhesion.

You cannot achieve that with liquid all over the fucking assembly,
you retarded twit!

I have manufactured HV boards that are potted
and they work very well, using 100% no-clean compatible processes.

I doubt very seriously that you have done any HV work other than a
smoke puffer supply for room freshener. I was talking about REAL HV
supplies, dipshit.

Also, you likely do not even know where the break point is for
declaring a circuit "HV".

You are
just wrong, Roy.

Nope. I did work for NASA and mil contractors, and I know what is
and is not acceptable methodology. You do not.

And there are silicone

THAT is NOT water based, dipshit.

Also, it doesn't matter what you use if there is flux on the board.

Adhesion is REQUIRED.

YOU ARE AN IDIOT!

 

[Roy L. Fuchs]

The irony is that our little internal operation does it very well, and
that the contract assemblers are the ones that mess up.

John

Cleaning steps, and cleanliness is your friend.

 

[John Larkin]

What's the downside for them vs. for you?

We do most of our assembly in-house. We have pneumatic solder
stencils, reflow oven, and a cleaner, but our bottleneck is the two
semi-auto p-n-p machines. Some boards, with as many as 1000 parts, can
take 4 hours or so to place. So when we get a big order, as sometimes
happens, it helps to be able to send out a kit of, say, 50 or 100
boards for assembly. It usually works OK, but since our stuff is
usually analog, we're very sensitive to contamination, and most
assemblers are using water-soluble fluxes these days. We occasionally
have other problems, but at least most of those are obvious, whereas
the killers are the time bombs, the things that may pass test but fail
in the field. I don't have a very good feeling about this tin whisker
thing.

I guess we're just an awkward size, sometimes too big for the in-house
p-n-p but too small to go automatic, and our batches aren't big enough
to get any assembler really excited about our business.

John

 

[Pooh Bear]

What's the downside for them vs. for you?

Redundancy ? Chapter 11 ? Etc.

Graham

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

You must be hiring dipshits as retarded as you are.

He's bad-mouthing the competition.

Get some HR screening in your life, boy. Stop trying to hire zero
experience crapsters just to save a couple bucks an hour, and deliver
a poorer product to your customers.

I doubt he can find really cheap or really experienced assembly labor
out there in hobby-farm country. That's what subway lines are there to
deliver.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

 

[Brian]

Roy, you are bad at insults and electronics. Study up a bit. Plenty of
conformal coatings and potting compounds out there that work with no-clean.
Done by many assembly houses everyday. Just go ahead though, you can be
wrong. Obviously, you have no clue as to how no-clean flux actually works.
If you believe it leaves a wet residue all over the board and dripping of
like snail slime, hey, so be it. You have a right to be uninformed. But
start with Humiseal, learn something.

So, I guess these tests were all lies....

http://www.aimsolder.com/techarticles/Conformal Coatings' Compatibility With AIM Flux Residues.pdf

I would bet the corona treaters I have designed boards for have a tad more
voltage than the toasters you tweak for a living (60kV 1020kV plus). The
noncontact printer HV modules we potted are less, but enough so that fr-4
had to have cutouts in it. They potted very well in no clean processes.

You are just dreadfully out of date and just ignorant, too, Roy.

And my sentence that got cut-off was that even some silicones have been
successfully used with no-clean, although we have not tried them here. We
have used Humiseal and other products with no coating related failures.

 

[Brian]

They probably cannot afford to do it like you do, to be honest. A few boards
is a lot different than EVERY board a contract house would make.

 

[Brian]

Hobby farm country? Not here. 500 head of milking cows is a minimum to be
even a hobby farm around here. The whole area is intensive agriculture, why
I chose it. I hate cities. Funny thing, though, is Plexus is a stones throw
away! Its a great area to live.

Roy, read the statement again (or have someone read it for you). It says
that there are few ASSEMBLY HOUSES that do it well, not employees. King of
misinterpretation and nonesense. I notice how you like to wander around
uttering nonsense, looking for just one little tiny thing you say that might
finally be correct. Then you are just proud as a peacock. Weird. But
basically, you just aren't understanding the topic, its over your head.

Honestly RMA processes and the cleaning involved for truly contaminant free
boards are a niche. It isn't served by many because not many customers need
it. As John knows, its hard to get someone to even consider building low
volumes of such boards. The money isn't there.

And I would bet, if I wanted to know what coating NASA likes for HV, I could
find it just as easy as anyone on QPL-46058

 

[Roy L. Fuchs]

Roy, you are bad at insults and electronics. Study up a bit. Plenty of
conformal coatings and potting compounds out there that work with no-clean.

You're an idiot, and you cannot even read. It isn't about whether
YOU think they will work or not, it IS about whether they will work
PROPERLY or not.

YES, you can use a coating or potting material with it, HOWEVER, it
will NOT pass ANY mil or space approval, and it will technically not
do the job it was meant to do.

YOU study a bit. Ask a few REAL engineers.

 

[Roy L. Fuchs]

But
start with Humiseal

"Humiseal" is NOT a water based conformal coating. I HAVE used it.
The name refers to what it is a barrier against, dumbass.