Rigol oscilloscope prices have sky-rocketed!

[Jon Kirwan]

On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 16:32:43 -0800, Jon Kirwan

On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 09:33:06 +1100, "David L. Jones"

[email protected] wrote:
Greegor wrote:
David:
You said the seller wrote to somebody:
<quote>
"Hello, Please don't worry, the problem is, an another seller has
complaint by ebay that i'm selling the rigol oscilloscopes at a
dumping price"
He then offered to complete the original low price transaction
outside of ebay.
Has it occurred to you that this is exactly the kind of story
that an ejected SCAMMER would tell to rope in a few
more suckers to send them money outside
of the aggressive protection of eBay/Paypal?
Could be, but not my problem, I'm just passing on what was said.
Buyer-beware, as always.
If you are worried then buy from DealExtreme or some other known
non-ebay seller.
Remember, this is not a one-off seller thing, dozens and dozens of
(legitimate) ebay sellers of this scope have suddenly dissapeared.
There is somethign else going on. I have not heard of a single
case of anyone being scammed on a Rigol scope, and I can tell you
I get a lot of feedback on this issue though my blog. Doesn't mean
it's safe of course.
How would you know if the seller is a SCAMMER or not?
Err, not too hard. If the seller has a rep of selling the same gear
previously (ebay and other forum history can show that), and most
of the sellers have suddenly disappeared (presumably) due to ebay
pulling their auctions for some competive(?) reason, then it's
more probable than not the seller is not a scammer, they are just
caught up in whatever is happening
here.
Dave.
--
---------------------------------------------
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog &
Podcast:http://www.eevblog.com
Ebay exists to collect fees. They don't care who is selling the item
as long as they get their cut. I suspect Rigol stopped supplying
these dealers. They have a right not to sell to any dealer they
don't like.
Manufacturers *are* able to excert pressure on them somehow. A
friend of mine came home from the USA with 3 new PS3's just after
they were released there. He put them up on ebay, but the listing
was removed since it was "illegal" to sell them.

--

John Devereux
I'd like to see the paper trail on this. I think there is more to the
story. I see stuff sold on ebay that I know has serious security
concerns regarding export. [There is a New Mexico vendor that is
pulling gear out of Los Alamos.] I see copyrighted literature put on
CDs and sold, such as those electronics manuals that the manufacturer
provides for free but arseholes put on CD to sell to stupid customers.
I just don't believe ebay polices their sales to the degree you are
inferring.
Ebay do nothing until someone complains. Then the bigger you are, the more
your complaint is taken seriously.
Ebay like to do stuff that shows the industries and government that they
care about the law and that they are in control, when in fact they don't
give a toss because they make money on everything of course. But they know
they have to be seen to be doing something at least some of the time.
Sounds exactly like credit card companies.
I love credit card companies. They let me use their money and give me
free money for the privilege. They also make it hand to buy stuff
online. What's not to like?

I do the same thing, just not VISA or MC, anymore. Problem
is, they still make a lot of money on fraud. For VISA, for
example, credit is issued by some bank or credit union ...
not some big VISA-in-the-sky. When there is a dispute, it's
between you and those who issued the credit and VISA makes
money no matter what takes place. So everything makes them
money, fraud included. Hence, no motivation to provide
helpful services like, for instance, the address and location
of some vendor you are certain is fraudulent. They pretty
much don't care.

American Express is a little different. They both issue the
credit _and_ do the transaction work. So they retain a
personal, financial interest in fraud cases. And they seem
to demonstrate that difference, at least to me.

I was thinking about trying Amex again myself. Problem is, many dealers
don't seem to accept them these days. Possibly because of their high fees.

Yes, that was the exact same story that kept me from using
them, as well. Now, I'm simply fed up with VISA profiting
from fraud and not caring one way or another; and my local
bank pretending to be impotent. Amex wins, hands down, in
cases like this -- probably because it is all under one roof
instead of broken up with each hand washing the other.

Jon

 

[krw]

On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 09:33:06 +1100, "David L. Jones"

[email protected] wrote:
Greegor wrote:
David:
You said the seller wrote to somebody:
<quote>
"Hello, Please don't worry, the problem is, an another seller has
complaint by ebay that i'm selling the rigol oscilloscopes at a
dumping price"
He then offered to complete the original low price transaction
outside of ebay.

Has it occurred to you that this is exactly the kind of story
that an ejected SCAMMER would tell to rope in a few
more suckers to send them money outside
of the aggressive protection of eBay/Paypal?

Could be, but not my problem, I'm just passing on what was said.
Buyer-beware, as always.
If you are worried then buy from DealExtreme or some other known
non-ebay seller.
Remember, this is not a one-off seller thing, dozens and dozens of
(legitimate) ebay sellers of this scope have suddenly dissapeared.
There is somethign else going on. I have not heard of a single
case of anyone being scammed on a Rigol scope, and I can tell you
I get a lot of feedback on this issue though my blog. Doesn't mean
it's safe of course.

How would you know if the seller is a SCAMMER or not?

Err, not too hard. If the seller has a rep of selling the same gear
previously (ebay and other forum history can show that), and most
of the sellers have suddenly disappeared (presumably) due to ebay
pulling their auctions for some competive(?) reason, then it's
more probable than not the seller is not a scammer, they are just
caught up in whatever is happening
here.

Dave.

--
---------------------------------------------
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog &
Podcast:http://www.eevblog.com

Ebay exists to collect fees. They don't care who is selling the item
as long as they get their cut. I suspect Rigol stopped supplying
these dealers. They have a right not to sell to any dealer they
don't like.

Manufacturers *are* able to excert pressure on them somehow. A
friend of mine came home from the USA with 3 new PS3's just after
they were released there. He put them up on ebay, but the listing
was removed since it was "illegal" to sell them.

--

John Devereux

I'd like to see the paper trail on this. I think there is more to the
story. I see stuff sold on ebay that I know has serious security
concerns regarding export. [There is a New Mexico vendor that is
pulling gear out of Los Alamos.] I see copyrighted literature put on
CDs and sold, such as those electronics manuals that the manufacturer
provides for free but arseholes put on CD to sell to stupid customers.
I just don't believe ebay polices their sales to the degree you are
inferring.

Ebay do nothing until someone complains. Then the bigger you are, the more
your complaint is taken seriously.
Ebay like to do stuff that shows the industries and government that they
care about the law and that they are in control, when in fact they don't
give a toss because they make money on everything of course. But they know
they have to be seen to be doing something at least some of the time.

Sounds exactly like credit card companies.

I love credit card companies. They let me use their money and give me
free money for the privilege. They also make it hand to buy stuff
online. What's not to like?

They charge merchants a significant fee and force the merchants
contractually to not advertise higher prices for CC purchases. Just

They can offer discounts for cash, however. Most don't because they
don't need to.

like a 2-3% hidden tax. Sometimes you can wangle a bit of a it back as
a rebate (in cash or airline miles).

The 2-3% can often be made up in increased sales. Like a tax, it
really comes out of operating expenses. Everyone pays them, so it's a
race to zero margin.

But they probably make up for it macro-economically by stimulating the
weak and/or stupid to overspend, so I guess they're not all bad.

Well...

 

[krw]

On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 09:33:06 +1100, "David L. Jones"

[email protected] wrote:
Greegor wrote:
David:
You said the seller wrote to somebody:
<quote>
"Hello, Please don't worry, the problem is, an another seller has
complaint by ebay that i'm selling the rigol oscilloscopes at a
dumping price"
He then offered to complete the original low price transaction
outside of ebay.

Has it occurred to you that this is exactly the kind of story
that an ejected SCAMMER would tell to rope in a few
more suckers to send them money outside
of the aggressive protection of eBay/Paypal?

Could be, but not my problem, I'm just passing on what was said.
Buyer-beware, as always.
If you are worried then buy from DealExtreme or some other known
non-ebay seller.
Remember, this is not a one-off seller thing, dozens and dozens of
(legitimate) ebay sellers of this scope have suddenly dissapeared.
There is somethign else going on. I have not heard of a single
case of anyone being scammed on a Rigol scope, and I can tell you
I get a lot of feedback on this issue though my blog. Doesn't mean
it's safe of course.

How would you know if the seller is a SCAMMER or not?

Err, not too hard. If the seller has a rep of selling the same gear
previously (ebay and other forum history can show that), and most
of the sellers have suddenly disappeared (presumably) due to ebay
pulling their auctions for some competive(?) reason, then it's
more probable than not the seller is not a scammer, they are just
caught up in whatever is happening
here.

Dave.

--
---------------------------------------------
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog &
Podcast:http://www.eevblog.com

Ebay exists to collect fees. They don't care who is selling the item
as long as they get their cut. I suspect Rigol stopped supplying
these dealers. They have a right not to sell to any dealer they
don't like.

Manufacturers *are* able to excert pressure on them somehow. A
friend of mine came home from the USA with 3 new PS3's just after
they were released there. He put them up on ebay, but the listing
was removed since it was "illegal" to sell them.

--

John Devereux

I'd like to see the paper trail on this. I think there is more to the
story. I see stuff sold on ebay that I know has serious security
concerns regarding export. [There is a New Mexico vendor that is
pulling gear out of Los Alamos.] I see copyrighted literature put on
CDs and sold, such as those electronics manuals that the manufacturer
provides for free but arseholes put on CD to sell to stupid customers.
I just don't believe ebay polices their sales to the degree you are
inferring.

Ebay do nothing until someone complains. Then the bigger you are, the more
your complaint is taken seriously.
Ebay like to do stuff that shows the industries and government that they
care about the law and that they are in control, when in fact they don't
give a toss because they make money on everything of course. But they know
they have to be seen to be doing something at least some of the time.

Sounds exactly like credit card companies.

I love credit card companies. They let me use their money and give me
free money for the privilege. They also make it hand to buy stuff
online. What's not to like?

I do the same thing, just not VISA or MC, anymore. Problem
is, they still make a lot of money on fraud. For VISA, for
example, credit is issued by some bank or credit union ...
not some big VISA-in-the-sky. When there is a dispute, it's
between you and those who issued the credit and VISA makes
money no matter what takes place. So everything makes them
money, fraud included. Hence, no motivation to provide
helpful services like, for instance, the address and location
of some vendor you are certain is fraudulent. They pretty
much don't care.

You have this all inside-out. Ov course Visa/MC don't care, they're a
bank holding company. Your issuing bank sure cares about fraud.
Report it to them, they'll sure care. It *does* cost them.

American Express is a little different. They both issue the
credit _and_ do the transaction work. So they retain a
personal, financial interest in fraud cases. And they seem
to demonstrate that difference, at least to me.

I have an AmEx and a Visa that both pay my 1% (on everything, more on
some things). I bought my Unisaw with a year's kickbacks on the Visa
(we bought some expensive stuff during the teaser months - by
design . I just got two gift cards from AmEx. Works for me.

 

[krw]

On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 16:32:43 -0800, Jon Kirwan

On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 09:33:06 +1100, "David L. Jones"

[email protected] wrote:
Greegor wrote:
David:
You said the seller wrote to somebody:
<quote>
"Hello, Please don't worry, the problem is, an another seller has
complaint by ebay that i'm selling the rigol oscilloscopes at a
dumping price"
He then offered to complete the original low price transaction
outside of ebay.
Has it occurred to you that this is exactly the kind of story
that an ejected SCAMMER would tell to rope in a few
more suckers to send them money outside
of the aggressive protection of eBay/Paypal?
Could be, but not my problem, I'm just passing on what was said.
Buyer-beware, as always.
If you are worried then buy from DealExtreme or some other known
non-ebay seller.
Remember, this is not a one-off seller thing, dozens and dozens of
(legitimate) ebay sellers of this scope have suddenly dissapeared.
There is somethign else going on. I have not heard of a single
case of anyone being scammed on a Rigol scope, and I can tell you
I get a lot of feedback on this issue though my blog. Doesn't mean
it's safe of course.
How would you know if the seller is a SCAMMER or not?
Err, not too hard. If the seller has a rep of selling the same gear
previously (ebay and other forum history can show that), and most
of the sellers have suddenly disappeared (presumably) due to ebay
pulling their auctions for some competive(?) reason, then it's
more probable than not the seller is not a scammer, they are just
caught up in whatever is happening
here.
Dave.
--
---------------------------------------------
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog &
Podcast:http://www.eevblog.com
Ebay exists to collect fees. They don't care who is selling the item
as long as they get their cut. I suspect Rigol stopped supplying
these dealers. They have a right not to sell to any dealer they
don't like.
Manufacturers *are* able to excert pressure on them somehow. A
friend of mine came home from the USA with 3 new PS3's just after
they were released there. He put them up on ebay, but the listing
was removed since it was "illegal" to sell them.

--

John Devereux
I'd like to see the paper trail on this. I think there is more to the
story. I see stuff sold on ebay that I know has serious security
concerns regarding export. [There is a New Mexico vendor that is
pulling gear out of Los Alamos.] I see copyrighted literature put on
CDs and sold, such as those electronics manuals that the manufacturer
provides for free but arseholes put on CD to sell to stupid customers.
I just don't believe ebay polices their sales to the degree you are
inferring.
Ebay do nothing until someone complains. Then the bigger you are, the more
your complaint is taken seriously.
Ebay like to do stuff that shows the industries and government that they
care about the law and that they are in control, when in fact they don't
give a toss because they make money on everything of course. But they know
they have to be seen to be doing something at least some of the time.
Sounds exactly like credit card companies.
I love credit card companies. They let me use their money and give me
free money for the privilege. They also make it hand to buy stuff
online. What's not to like?

I do the same thing, just not VISA or MC, anymore. Problem
is, they still make a lot of money on fraud. For VISA, for
example, credit is issued by some bank or credit union ...
not some big VISA-in-the-sky. When there is a dispute, it's
between you and those who issued the credit and VISA makes
money no matter what takes place. So everything makes them
money, fraud included. Hence, no motivation to provide
helpful services like, for instance, the address and location
of some vendor you are certain is fraudulent. They pretty
much don't care.

American Express is a little different. They both issue the
credit _and_ do the transaction work. So they retain a
personal, financial interest in fraud cases. And they seem
to demonstrate that difference, at least to me.

I was thinking about trying Amex again myself. Problem is, many dealers
don't seem to accept them these days. Possibly because of their high fees.

I don't know what the fee deal is anymore, but this is a thing of the
past. My AmEx is taken just about everywhere now. I can't remember
the last time it was refused.

 

[Jon Kirwan]

On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 16:32:43 -0800, Jon Kirwan

On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 09:33:06 +1100, "David L. Jones"

[email protected] wrote:
Greegor wrote:
David:
You said the seller wrote to somebody:
<quote>
"Hello, Please don't worry, the problem is, an another seller has
complaint by ebay that i'm selling the rigol oscilloscopes at a
dumping price"
He then offered to complete the original low price transaction
outside of ebay.

Has it occurred to you that this is exactly the kind of story
that an ejected SCAMMER would tell to rope in a few
more suckers to send them money outside
of the aggressive protection of eBay/Paypal?

Could be, but not my problem, I'm just passing on what was said.
Buyer-beware, as always.
If you are worried then buy from DealExtreme or some other known
non-ebay seller.
Remember, this is not a one-off seller thing, dozens and dozens of
(legitimate) ebay sellers of this scope have suddenly dissapeared.
There is somethign else going on. I have not heard of a single
case of anyone being scammed on a Rigol scope, and I can tell you
I get a lot of feedback on this issue though my blog. Doesn't mean
it's safe of course.

How would you know if the seller is a SCAMMER or not?

Err, not too hard. If the seller has a rep of selling the same gear
previously (ebay and other forum history can show that), and most
of the sellers have suddenly disappeared (presumably) due to ebay
pulling their auctions for some competive(?) reason, then it's
more probable than not the seller is not a scammer, they are just
caught up in whatever is happening
here.

Dave.

--
---------------------------------------------
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog &
Podcast:http://www.eevblog.com

Ebay exists to collect fees. They don't care who is selling the item
as long as they get their cut. I suspect Rigol stopped supplying
these dealers. They have a right not to sell to any dealer they
don't like.

Manufacturers *are* able to excert pressure on them somehow. A
friend of mine came home from the USA with 3 new PS3's just after
they were released there. He put them up on ebay, but the listing
was removed since it was "illegal" to sell them.

--

John Devereux

I'd like to see the paper trail on this. I think there is more to the
story. I see stuff sold on ebay that I know has serious security
concerns regarding export. [There is a New Mexico vendor that is
pulling gear out of Los Alamos.] I see copyrighted literature put on
CDs and sold, such as those electronics manuals that the manufacturer
provides for free but arseholes put on CD to sell to stupid customers.
I just don't believe ebay polices their sales to the degree you are
inferring.

Ebay do nothing until someone complains. Then the bigger you are, the more
your complaint is taken seriously.
Ebay like to do stuff that shows the industries and government that they
care about the law and that they are in control, when in fact they don't
give a toss because they make money on everything of course. But they know
they have to be seen to be doing something at least some of the time.

Sounds exactly like credit card companies.

I love credit card companies. They let me use their money and give me
free money for the privilege. They also make it hand to buy stuff
online. What's not to like?

I do the same thing, just not VISA or MC, anymore. Problem
is, they still make a lot of money on fraud. For VISA, for
example, credit is issued by some bank or credit union ...
not some big VISA-in-the-sky. When there is a dispute, it's
between you and those who issued the credit and VISA makes
money no matter what takes place. So everything makes them
money, fraud included. Hence, no motivation to provide
helpful services like, for instance, the address and location
of some vendor you are certain is fraudulent. They pretty
much don't care.

You have this all inside-out. Ov course Visa/MC don't care, they're a
bank holding company. Your issuing bank sure cares about fraud.
Report it to them, they'll sure care. It *does* cost them.

You know? I'm not always wrong, though you may think so.

I clearly said all this, earlier. I already know what you
just wrote. Been there, reported it, etc. My local bank
_does_ care... about it's own bottom line. And that means
not being very cooperative.

I have an AmEx and a Visa that both pay my 1% (on everything, more on
some things). I bought my Unisaw with a year's kickbacks on the Visa
(we bought some expensive stuff during the teaser months - by
design . I just got two gift cards from AmEx. Works for me.

Amex only, now.

Jon

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

There has to be some justification in the complaint. For instance, if
Sony says the seller has bad breath, ebay probably won't stop the
sale. Counterfeit goods, advertising used as new, etc, would probably
do the trick. Like I said, we need to get the whole story. Note that
ebay doesn't exactly want to get the so-called illegal seller all
pissed off either.

Case in point are radio scanners that are not legal to be sold as new
in the US due to cellular reception. These sell all the time on ebay.
So you are telling me that ebay has no fear of the feds, but bows down
to Mickey Mouse?

Pretty much. eBay is a profit-oriented corporation and doesn't have to
allow any particular person to be a customer. They will concentrate on
satisfying the big sellers who bring them big money, and the big IP
owners (and the government) who can cause them big problems. Telling
some troublesome small seller to go away is a low-cost way of avoiding
problems.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/items-ov.html

There is no specific eBay restriction on radio scanners that I can
see. I'm not sure the prohibition has ever been applied to private
importation for personal use. Here's the relevant law-- they slipped
it into the back (Sec 403) of a bill mostly aimed at regulating the
1-900 bandits.

http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/OSEC/library/legislative_histories/1460.pdf

It's been years since I've even seen an analog phone anyway, so it's
kind of a non-issue these days.

Hmmm...

http://www.fcc.gov/Forms/Form740/740.pdf

Exemption:

7. Three or fewer radio receivers, computers, or other unintentional
radiators as defined in Part 15 of the FCC Rules, are being imported
for an individual’s personal use and are not intended for sale.

So it doesn't look like there is any prohibition on importing a few
for private use, provided you fill out the proper paperwork (not that
you'd likely be asked if USPS handled it) and you are what the US Feds
call the _importer of record_.

BTW, Disney regularly complained and had auctions terminated of items
made from legitimate licenced Disney fabric. They seem to have backed
off recently, but only because the sellers spent the money and time to
take Disney to court directly.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/NOCI1.pdf

Here we are talking about grey-market goods. Since the mfg company
generally owns the trademark, it has a say over what eBay allows--
even if the sales are legally allowed. Mfrs like to have the freedom
to maintain separate distribution networks- for example, a product
sold in the US may be cheaper than one sold through a distributor in
Canada. And it may be cheaper again in China, but perhaps no warranty
is provided (and maybe quality control isn't as good or accessories
are not as complete). If they don't limit grey market sales, local
disties won't have enough margin to survive and service (and their
brand name) will suffer. It's a legitimate concern, but also in
restraint of trade (seems to be allowable in the US, judging by car
dealers). In the US this is sort of an IP issue, and it could be a
contractual issue with offshore distributors (eg. no sales allowed
outside of your geographic area or we cut you off). Pretty hard to
enforce in some cases:

http://www.managingip.com/Article/2040839/Combat-grey-market-goods-in-the-US.html




Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

 

[John Devereux]

"[email protected]" <[email protected]> writes:

[...]

Manufacturers *are* able to excert pressure on them somehow. A friend of
mine came home from the USA with 3 new PS3's just after they were
released there. He put them up on ebay, but the listing was removed
since it was "illegal" to sell them.

I'd like to see the paper trail on this. I think there is more to the
story. I see stuff sold on ebay that I know has serious security
concerns regarding export. [There is a New Mexico vendor that is
pulling gear out of Los Alamos.] I see copyrighted literature put on
CDs and sold, such as those electronics manuals that the manufacturer
provides for free but arseholes put on CD to sell to stupid customers.
I just don't believe ebay polices their sales to the degree you are
inferring. Probably Sony told ebay the goods are counterfeit.

Possibly, or that the software was not licenced for UK sale
perhaps. IIRC it wasn't just him, all similar ads got taken down.

 

[Nico Coesel]

Manufacturers *are* able to excert pressure on them somehow. A friend of
mine came home from the USA with 3 new PS3's just after they were
released there. He put them up on ebay, but the listing was removed
since it was "illegal" to sell them.

I'd like to see the paper trail on this. I think there is more to the
story. I see stuff sold on ebay that I know has serious security
concerns regarding export. [There is a New Mexico vendor that is
pulling gear out of Los Alamos.] I see copyrighted literature put on
CDs and sold, such as those electronics manuals that the manufacturer
provides for free but arseholes put on CD to sell to stupid customers.
I just don't believe ebay polices their sales to the degree you are
inferring. Probably Sony told ebay the goods are counterfeit.

eBay enforcement is based on complaints.. which could come from
competitors, or the mfrs like Sony. You can bet they take any
complaint from companies like Sony and Disney very seriously.

AFAIK Ebay is very quick to take down listings. They don't bother to
investigate whether a claim is true or false.

 

[Jamie]

2 problems I have had with modified sine wave inverters on electronic
equipment

1. - They won't run my Dewalt cordless drill charger (comes on but
wont put a noticeable charge into the battery),
I think that they use a series capacitor type power supply
(transformerless).

2. - Blew the mains fuse in my ERSA temperature controlled iron (has
50hz transformer).

I see no reason that a pure sine wave unit wouldnt work fine though.


Modified sine wave should work ok with 240v soldering irons (240v
element, no transformer) or switchmode power supplies. I would
however test these thoroughly before taking into the field.

Just use a 1:1 transformer between the inverter and device that
has issues. You'll get a clean enough wave form on the other side to
correct for the issue.

Also, to a couple of friends of mine having problems trying to run
their auger on the wood stove via an inverter, in case power went out. I
had them use a transformer, because it would trip the inverter every
time the initial start on the motor would take place. This was with a
inverter well capable of driving the little AC motor. Also, putting an
incandescent lamp across the load helps with reactive type load devices
to reduce the effects on the inverter.

I don't think the cost of a 1:1 transformer for the troubled unit
would cost as much or more as a sine wave inverter, as long as the
device is lightly loaded. But then again, I you had a lot of devices
that has problems with this, then maybe a sine wave unit is practical,
price wise.

 

[Jamie]

On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 16:32:43 -0800, Jon Kirwan

On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 09:33:06 +1100, "David L. Jones"

[email protected] wrote:




Greegor wrote:

David:
You said the seller wrote to somebody:

<quote>
"Hello, Please don't worry, the problem is, an another seller
has
complaint by ebay that i'm selling the rigol oscilloscopes at a
dumping price"
He then offered to complete the original low price transaction
outside of ebay.

Has it occurred to you that this is exactly the kind of story
that an ejected SCAMMER would tell to rope in a few
more suckers to send them money outside
of the aggressive protection of eBay/Paypal?

Could be, but not my problem, I'm just passing on what was said.
Buyer-beware, as always.
If you are worried then buy from DealExtreme or some other known
non-ebay seller.
Remember, this is not a one-off seller thing, dozens and dozens of
(legitimate) ebay sellers of this scope have suddenly dissapeared.
There is somethign else going on. I have not heard of a single
case of anyone being scammed on a Rigol scope, and I can tell you
I get a lot of feedback on this issue though my blog. Doesn't mean
it's safe of course.

How would you know if the seller is a SCAMMER or not?

Err, not too hard. If the seller has a rep of selling the same
gear
previously (ebay and other forum history can show that), and most
of the sellers have suddenly disappeared (presumably) due to ebay
pulling their auctions for some competive(?) reason, then it's
more probable than not the seller is not a scammer, they are just
caught up in whatever is happening
here.
Dave.
--
---------------------------------------------
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog &
Podcast:http://www.eevblog.com

Ebay exists to collect fees. They don't care who is selling the
item
as long as they get their cut. I suspect Rigol stopped supplying
these dealers. They have a right not to sell to any dealer they
don't like.

Manufacturers *are* able to excert pressure on them somehow. A
friend of mine came home from the USA with 3 new PS3's just after
they were released there. He put them up on ebay, but the listing
was removed since it was "illegal" to sell them.

--

John Devereux

I'd like to see the paper trail on this. I think there is more to the
story. I see stuff sold on ebay that I know has serious security
concerns regarding export. [There is a New Mexico vendor that is
pulling gear out of Los Alamos.] I see copyrighted literature put on
CDs and sold, such as those electronics manuals that the manufacturer
provides for free but arseholes put on CD to sell to stupid
customers.
I just don't believe ebay polices their sales to the degree you are
inferring.

Ebay do nothing until someone complains. Then the bigger you are,
the more your complaint is taken seriously.
Ebay like to do stuff that shows the industries and government that
they care about the law and that they are in control, when in fact
they don't give a toss because they make money on everything of
course. But they know they have to be seen to be doing something at
least some of the time.

Sounds exactly like credit card companies.

I love credit card companies. They let me use their money and give me
free money for the privilege. They also make it hand to buy stuff
online. What's not to like?

I do the same thing, just not VISA or MC, anymore. Problem
is, they still make a lot of money on fraud. For VISA, for
example, credit is issued by some bank or credit union ...
not some big VISA-in-the-sky. When there is a dispute, it's
between you and those who issued the credit and VISA makes
money no matter what takes place. So everything makes them
money, fraud included. Hence, no motivation to provide
helpful services like, for instance, the address and location
of some vendor you are certain is fraudulent. They pretty
much don't care.

American Express is a little different. They both issue the
credit _and_ do the transaction work. So they retain a
personal, financial interest in fraud cases. And they seem
to demonstrate that difference, at least to me.

I was thinking about trying Amex again myself. Problem is, many dealers
don't seem to accept them these days. Possibly because of their high fees.

We use AMx at work because the usually circle of venders we have
accounts for only carry the items I need about 50% of the time or, can't
deliver on time for us. So, we have a corporate AMx card I can use via
any vender off the .NET like Digikey, Mouser, Farnell, RF Parts, and
specialty places like getting large high powered resistors, HV, High
valued Caps etc...

The card is expensive how ever, we use it enough to cover the expense
and I guess the company thinks its a better deal!..

I myself, don't think otherwise. I guess i'll never understand big
business.

Jamie.

 

[krw]

On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 18:55:14 -0600, krw

On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 16:32:43 -0800, Jon Kirwan

On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 09:33:06 +1100, "David L. Jones"

[email protected] wrote:
Greegor wrote:
David:
You said the seller wrote to somebody:
<quote>
"Hello, Please don't worry, the problem is, an another seller has
complaint by ebay that i'm selling the rigol oscilloscopes at a
dumping price"
He then offered to complete the original low price transaction
outside of ebay.

Has it occurred to you that this is exactly the kind of story
that an ejected SCAMMER would tell to rope in a few
more suckers to send them money outside
of the aggressive protection of eBay/Paypal?

Could be, but not my problem, I'm just passing on what was said.
Buyer-beware, as always.
If you are worried then buy from DealExtreme or some other known
non-ebay seller.
Remember, this is not a one-off seller thing, dozens and dozens of
(legitimate) ebay sellers of this scope have suddenly dissapeared.
There is somethign else going on. I have not heard of a single
case of anyone being scammed on a Rigol scope, and I can tell you
I get a lot of feedback on this issue though my blog. Doesn't mean
it's safe of course.

How would you know if the seller is a SCAMMER or not?

Err, not too hard. If the seller has a rep of selling the same gear
previously (ebay and other forum history can show that), and most
of the sellers have suddenly disappeared (presumably) due to ebay
pulling their auctions for some competive(?) reason, then it's
more probable than not the seller is not a scammer, they are just
caught up in whatever is happening
here.

Dave.

--
---------------------------------------------
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog &
Podcast:http://www.eevblog.com

Ebay exists to collect fees. They don't care who is selling the item
as long as they get their cut. I suspect Rigol stopped supplying
these dealers. They have a right not to sell to any dealer they
don't like.

Manufacturers *are* able to excert pressure on them somehow. A
friend of mine came home from the USA with 3 new PS3's just after
they were released there. He put them up on ebay, but the listing
was removed since it was "illegal" to sell them.

--

John Devereux

I'd like to see the paper trail on this. I think there is more to the
story. I see stuff sold on ebay that I know has serious security
concerns regarding export. [There is a New Mexico vendor that is
pulling gear out of Los Alamos.] I see copyrighted literature put on
CDs and sold, such as those electronics manuals that the manufacturer
provides for free but arseholes put on CD to sell to stupid customers.
I just don't believe ebay polices their sales to the degree you are
inferring.

Ebay do nothing until someone complains. Then the bigger you are, the more
your complaint is taken seriously.
Ebay like to do stuff that shows the industries and government that they
care about the law and that they are in control, when in fact they don't
give a toss because they make money on everything of course. But they know
they have to be seen to be doing something at least some of the time.

Sounds exactly like credit card companies.

I love credit card companies. They let me use their money and give me
free money for the privilege. They also make it hand to buy stuff
online. What's not to like?

I do the same thing, just not VISA or MC, anymore. Problem
is, they still make a lot of money on fraud. For VISA, for
example, credit is issued by some bank or credit union ...
not some big VISA-in-the-sky. When there is a dispute, it's
between you and those who issued the credit and VISA makes
money no matter what takes place. So everything makes them
money, fraud included. Hence, no motivation to provide
helpful services like, for instance, the address and location
of some vendor you are certain is fraudulent. They pretty
much don't care.

You have this all inside-out. Ov course Visa/MC don't care, they're a
bank holding company. Your issuing bank sure cares about fraud.
Report it to them, they'll sure care. It *does* cost them.

You know? I'm not always wrong, though you may think so.

Yes, from what you've said here.

I clearly said all this, earlier. I already know what you
just wrote. Been there, reported it, etc. My local bank
_does_ care... about it's own bottom line. And that means
not being very cooperative.

Then get another bank! If they don't care about *their* money, I sure
don't want them having access to mine.

Amex only, now.

Don't like being stuck with only one. Those are the two I use
regularly. We also have a CU Visa but it doesn't kick anything back
so rarely gets used.

 

[Joerg]

On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 18:55:14 -0600, krw

On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 16:32:43 -0800, Jon Kirwan

On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 09:33:06 +1100, "David L. Jones"

[email protected] wrote:
Greegor wrote:
David:
You said the seller wrote to somebody:
<quote>
"Hello, Please don't worry, the problem is, an another seller has
complaint by ebay that i'm selling the rigol oscilloscopes at a
dumping price"
He then offered to complete the original low price transaction
outside of ebay.
Has it occurred to you that this is exactly the kind of story
that an ejected SCAMMER would tell to rope in a few
more suckers to send them money outside
of the aggressive protection of eBay/Paypal?
Could be, but not my problem, I'm just passing on what was said.
Buyer-beware, as always.
If you are worried then buy from DealExtreme or some other known
non-ebay seller.
Remember, this is not a one-off seller thing, dozens and dozens of
(legitimate) ebay sellers of this scope have suddenly dissapeared.
There is somethign else going on. I have not heard of a single
case of anyone being scammed on a Rigol scope, and I can tell you
I get a lot of feedback on this issue though my blog. Doesn't mean
it's safe of course.
How would you know if the seller is a SCAMMER or not?
Err, not too hard. If the seller has a rep of selling the same gear
previously (ebay and other forum history can show that), and most
of the sellers have suddenly disappeared (presumably) due to ebay
pulling their auctions for some competive(?) reason, then it's
more probable than not the seller is not a scammer, they are just
caught up in whatever is happening
here.
Dave.
--
---------------------------------------------
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog &
Podcast:http://www.eevblog.com
Ebay exists to collect fees. They don't care who is selling the item
as long as they get their cut. I suspect Rigol stopped supplying
these dealers. They have a right not to sell to any dealer they
don't like.
Manufacturers *are* able to excert pressure on them somehow. A
friend of mine came home from the USA with 3 new PS3's just after
they were released there. He put them up on ebay, but the listing
was removed since it was "illegal" to sell them.

--

John Devereux
I'd like to see the paper trail on this. I think there is more to the
story. I see stuff sold on ebay that I know has serious security
concerns regarding export. [There is a New Mexico vendor that is
pulling gear out of Los Alamos.] I see copyrighted literature put on
CDs and sold, such as those electronics manuals that the manufacturer
provides for free but arseholes put on CD to sell to stupid customers.
I just don't believe ebay polices their sales to the degree you are
inferring.
Ebay do nothing until someone complains. Then the bigger you are, the more
your complaint is taken seriously.
Ebay like to do stuff that shows the industries and government that they
care about the law and that they are in control, when in fact they don't
give a toss because they make money on everything of course. But they know
they have to be seen to be doing something at least some of the time.
Sounds exactly like credit card companies.
I love credit card companies. They let me use their money and give me
free money for the privilege. They also make it hand to buy stuff
online. What's not to like?
I do the same thing, just not VISA or MC, anymore. Problem
is, they still make a lot of money on fraud. For VISA, for
example, credit is issued by some bank or credit union ...
not some big VISA-in-the-sky. When there is a dispute, it's
between you and those who issued the credit and VISA makes
money no matter what takes place. So everything makes them
money, fraud included. Hence, no motivation to provide
helpful services like, for instance, the address and location
of some vendor you are certain is fraudulent. They pretty
much don't care.

American Express is a little different. They both issue the
credit _and_ do the transaction work. So they retain a
personal, financial interest in fraud cases. And they seem
to demonstrate that difference, at least to me.

I was thinking about trying Amex again myself. Problem is, many dealers
don't seem to accept them these days. Possibly because of their high fees.

I don't know what the fee deal is anymore, but this is a thing of the
past. My AmEx is taken just about everywhere now. I can't remember
the last time it was refused.

Ok, I'll have to check. Sometimes I look at the cards restaurants
mention as acceptable to them and I found that the Amex logo wasn't
always part of that line-up.

 

[Joerg]

32:43 -0800, Jon Kirwan
@sushi.com wrote:
Greegor wrote:
David:
You said the seller wrote to somebody:
<quote>
"Hello, Please don't worry, the problem is, an another seller has
complaint by ebay that i'm selling the rigol oscilloscopes at a
dumping price"
He then offered to complete the original low price transaction
outside of ebay.
Has it occurred to you that this is exactly the kind of story
that an ejected SCAMMER would tell to rope in a few
more suckers to send them money outside
of the aggressive protection of eBay/Paypal?
Could be, but not my problem, I'm just passing on what was said.
Buyer-beware, as always.
If you are worried then buy from DealExtreme or some other known
non-ebay seller.
Remember, this is not a one-off seller thing, dozens and dozens of
(legitimate) ebay sellers of this scope have suddenly dissapeared.
There is somethign else going on. I have not heard of a single
case of anyone being scammed on a Rigol scope, and I can tell you
I get a lot of feedback on this issue though my blog. Doesn't mean
it's safe of course.
How would you know if the seller is a SCAMMER or not?
Err, not too hard. If the seller has a rep of selling the same gear
previously (ebay and other forum history can show that), and most
of the sellers have suddenly disappeared (presumably) due to ebay
pulling their auctions for some competive(?) reason, then it's
more probable than not the seller is not a scammer, they are just
caught up in whatever is happening
here.
Dave.
--
---------------------------------------------
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog &
Podcast:http://www.eevblog.com
Ebay exists to collect fees. They don't care who is selling the item
as long as they get their cut. I suspect Rigol stopped supplying
these dealers. They have a right not to sell to any dealer they
don't like.
Manufacturers *are* able to excert pressure on them somehow. A
friend of mine came home from the USA with 3 new PS3's just after
they were released there. He put them up on ebay, but the listing
was removed since it was "illegal" to sell them.
--
John Devereux
I'd like to see the paper trail on this. I think there is more to the
story. I see stuff sold on ebay that I know has serious security
concerns regarding export. [There is a New Mexico vendor that is
pulling gear out of Los Alamos.] I see copyrighted literature put on
CDs and sold, such as those electronics manuals that the manufacturer
provides for free but arseholes put on CD to sell to stupid customers.
I just don't believe ebay polices their sales to the degree you are
inferring.
Ebay do nothing until someone complains. Then the bigger you are, the more
your complaint is taken seriously.
Ebay like to do stuff that shows the industries and government that they
care about the law and that they are in control, when in fact they don't
give a toss because they make money on everything of course. But they know
they have to be seen to be doing something at least some of the time.
Sounds exactly like credit card companies.
I love credit card companies. They let me use their money and give me
free money for the privilege. They also make it hand to buy stuff
online. What's not to like?
I do the same thing, just not VISA or MC, anymore. Problem
is, they still make a lot of money on fraud. For VISA, for
example, credit is issued by some bank or credit union ...
not some big VISA-in-the-sky. When there is a dispute, it's
between you and those who issued the credit and VISA makes
money no matter what takes place. So everything makes them
money, fraud included. Hence, no motivation to provide
helpful services like, for instance, the address and location
of some vendor you are certain is fraudulent. They pretty
much don't care.
American Express is a little different. They both issue the
credit _and_ do the transaction work. So they retain a
personal, financial interest in fraud cases. And they seem
to demonstrate that difference, at least to me.

I was thinking about trying Amex again myself. Problem is, many dealers
don't seem to accept them these days. Possibly because of their high fees.

If you are a Costco member, just get their free card. [Free is
relative since you have to pay to join Costco, but you get 4% back off
any gas purchase other than from SAMs, so over a year you easily get
your fee back.]

That's the one I was thinking about. I wouldn't pay a huge fee for any
credit card.

 

[Jon Kirwan]

<snip>
That's the one I was thinking about. I wouldn't pay a huge fee for any
credit card.

I pay zero dollars for my American Express card(s). No
_direct_ fees, at least, annual or otherwise. I'm sure
businesses I buy from make certain they make a profit,
though. So I'm probably paying for it when I buy anything at
all from a sales outlet that so much as accepts the card. I'm
probably paying for other cards, too, whether or not I care
to use them. It all comes out in the wash. (Speaking of
which, what is the German equivalent for that last idiom?)

Jon

 

[Joerg]

I pay zero dollars for my American Express card(s). No
_direct_ fees, at least, annual or otherwise. I'm sure
businesses I buy from make certain they make a profit,
though. So I'm probably paying for it when I buy anything at
all from a sales outlet that so much as accepts the card. I'm
probably paying for other cards, too, whether or not I care
to use them. It all comes out in the wash. (Speaking of
which, what is the German equivalent for that last idiom?)

Mostly they use a slang expression: "Es ist Pott wie Deckel". Pretty
much not-translateable

 

[Mr.T]

Just use a 1:1 transformer between the inverter and device that
has issues. You'll get a clean enough wave form on the other side to
correct for the issue.

I don't think the cost of a 1:1 transformer for the troubled unit
would cost as much or more as a sine wave inverter, as long as the
device is lightly loaded. But then again, I you had a lot of devices
that has problems with this, then maybe a sine wave unit is practical,
price wise.

But a 1:1 transformer will probably cost more than the modified square wave
inverter.
(Modified sine wave is a misnomer)

MrT.

 

[krw]

Jon Kirwan wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 18:55:14 -0600, krw

On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 16:32:43 -0800, Jon Kirwan

On Sun, 3 Jan 2010 09:33:06 +1100, "David L. Jones"

[email protected] wrote:
Greegor wrote:
David:
You said the seller wrote to somebody:
<quote>
"Hello, Please don't worry, the problem is, an another seller has
complaint by ebay that i'm selling the rigol oscilloscopes at a
dumping price"
He then offered to complete the original low price transaction
outside of ebay.
Has it occurred to you that this is exactly the kind of story
that an ejected SCAMMER would tell to rope in a few
more suckers to send them money outside
of the aggressive protection of eBay/Paypal?
Could be, but not my problem, I'm just passing on what was said.
Buyer-beware, as always.
If you are worried then buy from DealExtreme or some other known
non-ebay seller.
Remember, this is not a one-off seller thing, dozens and dozens of
(legitimate) ebay sellers of this scope have suddenly dissapeared.
There is somethign else going on. I have not heard of a single
case of anyone being scammed on a Rigol scope, and I can tell you
I get a lot of feedback on this issue though my blog. Doesn't mean
it's safe of course.
How would you know if the seller is a SCAMMER or not?
Err, not too hard. If the seller has a rep of selling the same gear
previously (ebay and other forum history can show that), and most
of the sellers have suddenly disappeared (presumably) due to ebay
pulling their auctions for some competive(?) reason, then it's
more probable than not the seller is not a scammer, they are just
caught up in whatever is happening
here.
Dave.
--
---------------------------------------------
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog &
Podcast:http://www.eevblog.com
Ebay exists to collect fees. They don't care who is selling the item
as long as they get their cut. I suspect Rigol stopped supplying
these dealers. They have a right not to sell to any dealer they
don't like.
Manufacturers *are* able to excert pressure on them somehow. A
friend of mine came home from the USA with 3 new PS3's just after
they were released there. He put them up on ebay, but the listing
was removed since it was "illegal" to sell them.

--

John Devereux
I'd like to see the paper trail on this. I think there is more to the
story. I see stuff sold on ebay that I know has serious security
concerns regarding export. [There is a New Mexico vendor that is
pulling gear out of Los Alamos.] I see copyrighted literature put on
CDs and sold, such as those electronics manuals that the manufacturer
provides for free but arseholes put on CD to sell to stupid customers.
I just don't believe ebay polices their sales to the degree you are
inferring.
Ebay do nothing until someone complains. Then the bigger you are, the more
your complaint is taken seriously.
Ebay like to do stuff that shows the industries and government that they
care about the law and that they are in control, when in fact they don't
give a toss because they make money on everything of course. But they know
they have to be seen to be doing something at least some of the time.
Sounds exactly like credit card companies.
I love credit card companies. They let me use their money and give me
free money for the privilege. They also make it hand to buy stuff
online. What's not to like?
I do the same thing, just not VISA or MC, anymore. Problem
is, they still make a lot of money on fraud. For VISA, for
example, credit is issued by some bank or credit union ...
not some big VISA-in-the-sky. When there is a dispute, it's
between you and those who issued the credit and VISA makes
money no matter what takes place. So everything makes them
money, fraud included. Hence, no motivation to provide
helpful services like, for instance, the address and location
of some vendor you are certain is fraudulent. They pretty
much don't care.

American Express is a little different. They both issue the
credit _and_ do the transaction work. So they retain a
personal, financial interest in fraud cases. And they seem
to demonstrate that difference, at least to me.

I was thinking about trying Amex again myself. Problem is, many dealers
don't seem to accept them these days. Possibly because of their high fees.

I don't know what the fee deal is anymore, but this is a thing of the
past. My AmEx is taken just about everywhere now. I can't remember
the last time it was refused.

Ok, I'll have to check. Sometimes I look at the cards restaurants
mention as acceptable to them and I found that the Amex logo wasn't
always part of that line-up.

Look around the next few times you're in restaurants. They're the
places that most like AmEx. I've never been refused in a restaurant
(a real one, anyway - don't know about McD's). Many will even take
Diners! <Shock!>

 

[krw]

Jon Kirwan wrote:
32:43 -0800, Jon Kirwan
@sushi.com wrote:
Greegor wrote:
David:
You said the seller wrote to somebody:
<quote>
"Hello, Please don't worry, the problem is, an another seller has
complaint by ebay that i'm selling the rigol oscilloscopes at a
dumping price"
He then offered to complete the original low price transaction
outside of ebay.
Has it occurred to you that this is exactly the kind of story
that an ejected SCAMMER would tell to rope in a few
more suckers to send them money outside
of the aggressive protection of eBay/Paypal?
Could be, but not my problem, I'm just passing on what was said.
Buyer-beware, as always.
If you are worried then buy from DealExtreme or some other known
non-ebay seller.
Remember, this is not a one-off seller thing, dozens and dozens of
(legitimate) ebay sellers of this scope have suddenly dissapeared.
There is somethign else going on. I have not heard of a single
case of anyone being scammed on a Rigol scope, and I can tell you
I get a lot of feedback on this issue though my blog. Doesn't mean
it's safe of course.
How would you know if the seller is a SCAMMER or not?
Err, not too hard. If the seller has a rep of selling the same gear
previously (ebay and other forum history can show that), and most
of the sellers have suddenly disappeared (presumably) due to ebay
pulling their auctions for some competive(?) reason, then it's
more probable than not the seller is not a scammer, they are just
caught up in whatever is happening
here.
Dave.
--
---------------------------------------------
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog &
Podcast:http://www.eevblog.com
Ebay exists to collect fees. They don't care who is selling the item
as long as they get their cut. I suspect Rigol stopped supplying
these dealers. They have a right not to sell to any dealer they
don't like.
Manufacturers *are* able to excert pressure on them somehow. A
friend of mine came home from the USA with 3 new PS3's just after
they were released there. He put them up on ebay, but the listing
was removed since it was "illegal" to sell them.
--
John Devereux
I'd like to see the paper trail on this. I think there is more to the
story. I see stuff sold on ebay that I know has serious security
concerns regarding export. [There is a New Mexico vendor that is
pulling gear out of Los Alamos.] I see copyrighted literature put on
CDs and sold, such as those electronics manuals that the manufacturer
provides for free but arseholes put on CD to sell to stupid customers.
I just don't believe ebay polices their sales to the degree you are
inferring.
Ebay do nothing until someone complains. Then the bigger you are, the more
your complaint is taken seriously.
Ebay like to do stuff that shows the industries and government that they
care about the law and that they are in control, when in fact they don't
give a toss because they make money on everything of course. But they know
they have to be seen to be doing something at least some of the time.
Sounds exactly like credit card companies.
I love credit card companies. They let me use their money and give me
free money for the privilege. They also make it hand to buy stuff
online. What's not to like?
I do the same thing, just not VISA or MC, anymore. Problem
is, they still make a lot of money on fraud. For VISA, for
example, credit is issued by some bank or credit union ...
not some big VISA-in-the-sky. When there is a dispute, it's
between you and those who issued the credit and VISA makes
money no matter what takes place. So everything makes them
money, fraud included. Hence, no motivation to provide
helpful services like, for instance, the address and location
of some vendor you are certain is fraudulent. They pretty
much don't care.
American Express is a little different. They both issue the
credit _and_ do the transaction work. So they retain a
personal, financial interest in fraud cases. And they seem
to demonstrate that difference, at least to me.
I was thinking about trying Amex again myself. Problem is, many dealers
don't seem to accept them these days. Possibly because of their high fees.

If you are a Costco member, just get their free card. [Free is
relative since you have to pay to join Costco, but you get 4% back off
any gas purchase other than from SAMs, so over a year you easily get
your fee back.]

That's the one I was thinking about. I wouldn't pay a huge fee for any
credit card.

I won't pay a dime for a CC. I got a solicitation for a "Black" Visa
(I think it was) a while back. I showed the letter to my wife and
suggested we get it because it was so pretty. $500/yr for a single,
$750/yr for two cards. "Limited Membership", yea, I'll bet. For some
reason, she didn't think it very funny.

 

[krw]

I pay zero dollars for my American Express card(s). No
_direct_ fees, at least, annual or otherwise. I'm sure

My AmEx is a "Clear" card (really dumb idea, it can't be read). There
is no annual fee for it, either.

businesses I buy from make certain they make a profit,
though. So I'm probably paying for it when I buy anything at
all from a sales outlet that so much as accepts the card. I'm
probably paying for other cards, too, whether or not I care
to use them. It all comes out in the wash. (Speaking of
which, what is the German equivalent for that last idiom?)

Yes, it does. Either you take the kickback or you don't.

 

[ehsjr]

$362.90 here
http://www.getbetterlife.com/rigol-...so_p797.html?gclid=CKqsvaPjg58CFRh15QodZWM20w

What do you know about them? Legit? A scam?
What about shipping? The site seems to indicate $1.00 for
shipping 5 kg or less, but I wonder if I'm misunderstanding.
I say "seems to" because I clicked on shipping method. The
$1.00 might be a charge that is in addition to whatever the
actual shipping charge is. Shipping cost simply can't be
just one dollar, but I suppose it's possible the company
doesn't charge the customer the actual shipping cost.

Anyway, it all seems too good to be true, so it makes me
wonder.

Ed