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EOL's

A

ABLE_1

Jan 1, 1970
0
Today I had a strange occurrence with a EOL. The system was not reporting
the zone open even though I was holding the door open and looking at the
keypad. After a period of troubleshooting found that the 3.74k resistor was
now 5.86k. Replaced with new and all is well. This is the second time in 17
years that this has happened to me. Very Strange???
I wonder what would make it change in this way. Any thought???

Responsible comments requested.
 
C

Crash Gordon

Jan 1, 1970
0
old age..harsh environment..corrosion?
what did the wiring & switch measure out at without the resistor?

"Responsible comments requested" ... in this group? I'll lay you odds that
this topic will denigrate into something wierd within 15 posts!


| Today I had a strange occurrence with a EOL. The system was not reporting
| the zone open even though I was holding the door open and looking at the
| keypad. After a period of troubleshooting found that the 3.74k resistor
was
| now 5.86k. Replaced with new and all is well. This is the second time in
17
| years that this has happened to me. Very Strange???
| I wonder what would make it change in this way. Any thought???
|
| .
|
|
 
A

ABLE_1

Jan 1, 1970
0
Actually about 4 years old, very clean office enviro, no corrosion, bare
loop about 2 ohms. If any of the above would have been different I would
have had a good suspect. Again very strange.
old age..harsh environment..corrosion?
what did the wiring & switch measure out at without the resistor?
Click to expand...

"In this group" is the reason I put "Responsible comments requested" been
here too long to know otherwise.
One only could wish.
 
A

ABLE_1

Jan 1, 1970
0
Funny comment, but now it swims with the fishes!!!!
 
J

J Barnes

Jan 1, 1970
0
We have lightning weld some of our door / window switches closed sometimes.
Maybe it is partially burning up the resistor.

James


ABLE_1 said:
Funny comment, but now it swims with the fishes!!!!
Click to expand...
 
A

ABLE_1

Jan 1, 1970
0
Anything is possible, but on this it would be a slim hope at best. Switch
works fine and all other zones work fine. It may just end up as one of
those mysteries of life.
 
P

Puterjoe

Jan 1, 1970
0
ABLE_1 said:
Today I had a strange occurrence with a EOL. The system was not reporting
the zone open even though I was holding the door open and looking at the
keypad. After a period of troubleshooting found that the 3.74k resistor was
now 5.86k. Replaced with new and all is well. This is the second time in 17
years that this has happened to me. Very Strange???
I wonder what would make it change in this way. Any thought???

Responsible comments requested.
Click to expand...


Well, If your panel showed no open zone and the door was open.....the
size of the resister is a small factor....if the door "switch" was
open, the circuit should be open. So! it sounds like a ground past the
resister and before the switch that probably got "fixed" when you
changed the EOLR . and yes the EOLR value does matter...just one way
to possibly explain it. Just draw out the simple circuit and you can
see that an open switch MUST open the panel, no current flow...but a
suitable ground in the right spot ....it can bypass the switch. and a
ground on the other side of the resistor will open the circuit. This
is the reason for a lot of intermitten problems... that "go away" after
you check things....look for nicked wires etc.
 
C

Crash Gordon

Jan 1, 1970
0
And how does this account for the fact that the resistOr changed it's value?


| ABLE_1 wrote:
| > Today I had a strange occurrence with a EOL. The system was not
reporting
| > the zone open even though I was holding the door open and looking at the
| > keypad. After a period of troubleshooting found that the 3.74k resistor
was
| > now 5.86k. Replaced with new and all is well. This is the second time in
17
| > years that this has happened to me. Very Strange???
| > I wonder what would make it change in this way. Any thought???
| >
| > Responsible comments requested.
|
|
| Well, If your panel showed no open zone and the door was open.....the
| size of the resister is a small factor....if the door "switch" was
| open, the circuit should be open. So! it sounds like a ground past the
| resister and before the switch that probably got "fixed" when you
| changed the EOLR . and yes the EOLR value does matter...just one way
| to possibly explain it. Just draw out the simple circuit and you can
| see that an open switch MUST open the panel, no current flow...but a
| suitable ground in the right spot ....it can bypass the switch. and a
| ground on the other side of the resistor will open the circuit. This
| is the reason for a lot of intermitten problems... that "go away" after
| you check things....look for nicked wires etc.
|
 
B

Beau Skeen

Jan 1, 1970
0
3.74K sounds like a zone doubled NX panel to me? If there in fact was a
short to ground after the resistor but before the switch it should also
affect the corresponding upper zone, especially if the resistors are
installed in the can.
 
R

Rich

Jan 1, 1970
0
The resister changed value not colors.
It reads more the the markings on it?
And no one was there and swaped it out.
I never saw a carbon resister change unless it had a lot of power go therw
it.
 
A

ABLE_1

Jan 1, 1970
0
Thanks for all the thought even if they were slightly off tangent.

Yes the resistOr did change value (up) and I would think that a high voltage
surge would have degraded the value down not up if not open altogether.
Weird things do happen and sometimes in ways you would not expect.

Again thanks for the "responsible comments".
 
C

Crash Gordon

Jan 1, 1970
0
ot...

ever see firewire become brittle?

this one drove me nuts today...kept stripping it back putting it in the
termination block on a new smoke (old house, old wire) and the freeking
thing would break after we put it back up...i about had a fit...happend 3
times on different terminations...up down up down up down. Maybe I should
just become a salesman and keep my fat ass on a cushioned chair.

hmmm...nah.



| Thanks for all the thought even if they were slightly off tangent.
|
| Yes the resistOr did change value (up) and I would think that a high
voltage
| surge would have degraded the value down not up if not open altogether.
| Weird things do happen and sometimes in ways you would not expect.
|
| Again thanks for the "responsible comments".
|
|
|
| > The resister changed value not colors.
| > It reads more the the markings on it?
| > And no one was there and swaped it out.
| > I never saw a carbon resister change unless it had a lot of power go
therw
| > it.
| >
| >
| >
| >
|
|
 
A

Al Colombo

Jan 1, 1970
0
If you begin with a resistor with a 20% tolerance (no tolerance band),
and with some age and heat, the carbon in it can change it's
resistive/conductive properties. If you really want to control this
better, try either 10% tolerant resistors (silver tolerance band) or
better yet 5% (gold tolerance band) resistors.

Al
 
R

Robert L Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
If you begin with a resistor with a 20% tolerance (no tolerance band),
and with some age and heat, the carbon in it can change it's
resistive/conductive properties...
Click to expand...

No Al. That is not correct. Tolerance is a measure of the
precision of the resistor in manufacturing. It does not mean
that the resistor will change over time.

Resistors are never made to the exact value indicated by the
color codes. Manufacturers use the tolerance color band to tell
you just how accurately the resistor was made. It is a
measurement of the imperfections. Gold = within 5% of dead-on.
Silver = within 10%. In other words, the tolerance band
indicates the range of possible values that a given resistor may
have. For example, a resistor with three red bands and one gold
band is rated at 2200 Ohms but it can actually read anywhere from
2090 to 2310 Ohms. Whatever its value was when made, it will
remain at that same value permanently.

To determine the exact range that the resistor may be, take the
value of the resistor and multiply it by 5%, 10%, or 20% for
gold, silver or no tolerance band, respectively.
If you really want to control this better, try either 10% tolerant
resistors (silver tolerance band) or better yet 5% (gold tolerance
band) resistors.
Click to expand...

The above statement is based upon a misunderstanding of resistor
tolerance.

If you really want to be picky, use 5-band resistors but have fun
finding an alarm manufacturer that supplies them. 3-Band and
5-band resistors do exist, though they're not appropriate for use
in alarm circuits.

It is highly unlikely that the gentleman has a 20% tolerance
resistor but even if he did that would not mean that the carbon
is more likely to change value.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

Bass Burglar Alarms
The Online DIY Store
http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com
 
A

ABLE_1

Jan 1, 1970
0
Correct Robert, I don't remember the tolerance band on this particular
resistor but I believe it to have been a 10% Silver. That would mean it
would have had a high range of 4.114k but it was at 5.86k that would be
56.7% increase in value. We will never know what happened to have changed
it so drastically.
 
A

ABLE_1

Jan 1, 1970
0
Is not true that if copper is heated and quickly cooled it will lose it
ductile strength and become brittle?? Maybe when it was processed it was
not tempered properly. Just be happy in the fact that is was not stranded
wire and all but one strand had broken. A good reason to use solid wire in
Fire Alarms.
 
R

Robert L Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
It's too bad you didn't keep the resistor. It might have been
interesting to examine it. My best guess is it was poorly made
to start with (stuff happens) and it chose your installation in
which to make its home. :^)

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

Bass Burglar Alarms
The Online DIY Store
http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com

--

Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large
groups.
Correct Robert, I don't remember the tolerance band on this particular
resistor but I believe it to have been a 10% Silver. That would mean it
would have had a high range of 4.114k but it was at 5.86k that would be
56.7% increase in value. We will never know what happened to have changed
it so drastically.
Click to expand...
 
A

alarman

Jan 1, 1970
0
ABLE_1 said:
Is not true that if copper is heated and quickly cooled it will lose it
ductile strength and become brittle?? Maybe when it was processed it was
not tempered properly. Just be happy in the fact that is was not stranded
wire and all but one strand had broken. A good reason to use solid wire in
Fire Alarms.
Click to expand...

Stranded fire wire? Never seen that.
js
 
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