EOL solder wire purchase

[Don Y]

Hi Jeroen,

On 2013-08-12 22:19, Don Y wrote:

In the land of the free! What are you coming to?

Everyone evaluates their viewport into the world based on their
own life-experiences/biases/etc. -- a variation on the "if the
only tool you have is a HAMMER..." theme. Seldom do people *think*
before coming to conclusions. Even riskier if it would require
knowledge outside of their "life experiences" to evaluate properly.

I regularly have teenagers flashing gang signs at me -- despite
the fact that I'm old enough to be their GRANDfather! ("Look
carefully, guys. See the *graying* hair? Anyone in your gang
old enough to *have* hair like that??!")

I can remember the first time I took a wire-wrap gun through a
metal detector (many decades ago). When asked what it was
(cuz it has such a distinctive shape), I made the mistake of
calling it a wire-wrap *gun* -- instead of a "wire-wrap TOOL".
Had it been a STAPLE gun, the concept would have been much more
familiar to the types of folks who staff the security checkpoints.
"Wire-wrap" was not something they'd (apparently) heard in that
context.

Ditto, when flying internationally, I learned NOT to reply to
(seemingly) "casual inquiries" as to the origins of my surname
the way I would here (US) -- where damn near *everyone* is an
immigrant! Rather, when asked, "what sort of name is that?" I
now reply "American".

<shrug> If the environment you submerge yourself in focuses
on seeing things with a certain bias, its hard to avoid seeing
everything with that same bias. I'd prefer not to complicate
my life trying to educate someone as to the *other* wonders
the world contains BEYOND their narrow viewpoint... there are
far more important things clamoring for my limited time!

(e.g., I first acquired the scale to measure *beard* shavings.
Wanna explain *that* to a cop?? "And what do you DO with these
shavings, *smoke* them???" :-/ )

(sigh)

 

[Don Y]

Hi Joerg,

.... until just about now

No. It would never have been able to weigh a pound of solder.
Maybe a couple of IC's... :<

I could care less. They aren't going to tell me what I can use. A
pharmacists also raised a brow when I wanted syringes. "For oiling in
tough spots" ... "Ah, ok".

I don't worry about pharmacists -- their "authority" ends with
the ability to fill a prescription.

Years ago, I went into a pharmacy to purchase "Arthropan" (essentially,
"liquid aspririn" -- very fast acting, easy to ingest, etc.). The
pharmacist looked at me like I was trying to purchase heroin! He
snapped: "What do you want it for?" I replied, "It's a reasonably
fast acting analgesic..." I guess he figured knowing a word with
more than three syllabubs meant I wasn't a "thug" :-/

It will. Even the li'l post office in our town which is in a corner of a
Bel Air supermarket has a scale that measures minute quantities, yet
goes up to several pounds. But I am sure a neighbor has an electronic
kitchen scale.

I'd probably be safe taking that wager! E.g., very few people in
the neighborhood do much in terms of home cooking. AFAICT, I am
the only one who bakes "from scratch", etc.

Post office is a "known". Start there before bothering neighbors
and having them all think I mean "bathroom scale"... much to the
chagrin of the local kids' parents ("Wow! I don't think I've ever
had a brownie made from scratch before...")

(Jewish Coffee Cake, tonight -- while the sour cream is still
nice and fresh!)

 

[Don Y]

Hi John,

I bought some ebay "precision scales", quite cheap, did not pay much
attention to what I was buying. I had some idea I would use them to
count components, nuts or something. Claimed up to 0.01g resolution I
think.

I was puzzled to get a CD in the post. I realise it is the weigh

(By "CD" you obviously intend "portable CD player"?)

scale. Designed to look like a CD! WTF. They are built into a CD case,
clearly designed so as to look innocent to visiting law enforcement!

I expect I am on a List now...

<grin> Colleague told me of some folks who purchased a small,
hand-operated "tablet press" from his firm -- the sort of
thing you would use to make small, "prototype quantities" of
pharmaceuticals (or other solid form doses). Even if only to
test teh mechanical characteristics of the tablets, etc.

Needless to say, they weren't using it for "legal purposes" when
the police visited! :>

 

[Joerg]

Hi Joerg,



No. It would never have been able to weigh a pound of solder.
Maybe a couple of IC's... :<

Easy fix: Roll off as much as it will still measure without pegging and
weigh that. Can also be 2-3 cuttings where you just add each weight. Now
solder your stuff. Place the remaining solder back on the scale,
subtract from the first weight (or sum), done.

I don't worry about pharmacists -- their "authority" ends with
the ability to fill a prescription.

Not really:

http://www.krqe.com/dpp/news/health/pharmacists-in-nm-face-new-reporting-requirement
http://www.azdhs.gov/phs/oids/reporting/pharmacies.htm
http://www.azdps.gov/Information/Chemicals/Reporting/

Years ago, I went into a pharmacy to purchase "Arthropan" (essentially,
"liquid aspririn" -- very fast acting, easy to ingest, etc.). The
pharmacist looked at me like I was trying to purchase heroin! He
snapped: "What do you want it for?" I replied, "It's a reasonably
fast acting analgesic..." I guess he figured knowing a word with
more than three syllabubs meant I wasn't a "thug" :-/





I'd probably be safe taking that wager! E.g., very few people in
the neighborhood do much in terms of home cooking. AFAICT, I am
the only one who bakes "from scratch", etc.

Post office is a "known". Start there before bothering neighbors
and having them all think I mean "bathroom scale"... much to the
chagrin of the local kids' parents ("Wow! I don't think I've ever
had a brownie made from scratch before...")

(Jewish Coffee Cake, tonight -- while the sour cream is still
nice and fresh!)

We also make almost everything from scratch but so do our neighbors.
They even grow their own vegetables. Ok, it's my mostly wife who cooks
and bakes, I am more responsible for the outdoor cooking part. This
includes baking, yesterday we baked some rolls in the Weber over
charcoal, afterwards I barbecued ribs, sausages and chess-filled
jalapenos. Also had a home-baked banana-almond muffin.

Can't wait until I can semi-retire and then start brewing beer again.
Haven't done that in 30 years.

 

[Joerg]

I was completely gray at 20. That was over 40 years ago.

Can be worse. My hair was mostly gone by age 23. That was nineteen sumpthin'

 

[Don Y]

Hi Michael,

I was completely gray at 20. That was over 40 years ago.

Neighbor was virtually *bald* at that age. My *beard* has
been essentially "snow white" since ~30-ish. Though my hair
has largely retained its original color (vy dk brn) -- with wisps
of grey in the side-burns, temples, etc.

When I want to "look my age", I let my beard! :> The looks from
friends/neighbors/colleagues who've never seen it before are
absolutely *precious* (think: "slack-jawwed"?)! Always amusing
to screw with people's expectations... ;-)

 

[John S]

I was starting to turn gray at 13. The idiots who taunted me about
it were mostly hairless by their 30s. I blamed my teachers for turning
my hair gray...

30 years ago, I got tired of people whining about my gray hair at
work, so I dyed it a deep brown to match what it should have looked
like. Jaws dropped when I went into work, but no one said a word. A
few days later most of it had washed out, and one woman asked why I
didn't keep dying it. I smiled and told her that I can't tell what color
it is, from the inside of my head. ;-)

My hair turned to solder when I opened my first book on electronics.

 

[Don Y]

Hi Joerg,

Don Y wrote:

We also make almost everything from scratch but so do our neighbors.
They even grow their own vegetables. Ok, it's my mostly wife who cooks

Aside from citrus, pomegranates, etc., I think the only things that
grow well here are garlic and cantelope. Sure miss a *good* apple
(*picked* ripe)!

and bakes, I am more responsible for the outdoor cooking part. This
includes baking, yesterday we baked some rolls in the Weber over
charcoal, afterwards I barbecued ribs, sausages and chess-filled
jalapenos. Also had a home-baked banana-almond muffin.

We make very little "outside" -- SWMBO isn't into most meats and it's
way too much work for just one of me! A taste for grilled kielbasa so
I'll brave the heat to make that this week (no idea what *she* will
eat!) Steak, roasted pig, etc. are just way too much work unless
you're entertaining... She'll go for ribs but that's too much work
(eating) for my tastes!

Can't wait until I can semi-retire and then start brewing beer again.
Haven't done that in 30 years.

I'm looking to purchase an upscale ice cream maker. I bake
a lot but don't eat any of that stuff (makes it hard to know
how things turned out when you don't *taste* them! :-/ ).

OTOH, I consume gallons of homemade ice cream, gelato and sorbet...
until it just gets too tedious to make more! ("almond chocolate
chip with almonds" and "butter pecan" being my favorites -- though
the latter leaves me insatiably THIRSTY!!)

 

[josephkk]

I was completely gray at 20. That was over 40 years ago.

I went salt and pepper by that age. About the same time ago. My mom was
nearly white by age 25, and her mom was white by age 16.

?-)

 

[John Devereux]

Hi John,



(By "CD" you obviously intend "portable CD player"?)

Nope, it's built into an actual CD case! I must try to dig it out and
post a picture.

<grin> Colleague told me of some folks who purchased a small,
hand-operated "tablet press" from his firm -- the sort of
thing you would use to make small, "prototype quantities" of
pharmaceuticals (or other solid form doses). Even if only to
test teh mechanical characteristics of the tablets, etc.

Needless to say, they weren't using it for "legal purposes" when
the police visited! :>

I think mere possession of "drug paraphernalia" is seriously illegal in
the USA (variations by states I imagine). UK too for all I know...

 

[Robert Baer]

Don Y wrote:
Hi,

Many years ago, I made what I *though* would have been
my "last buy" of solder wire. Apparently, my estimated
usage was off -- or, I have lived too long. :< Either
way, I find myself having to repeat this exercise...
(the real problem is that I have been using too much of
it for "bigger jobs" instead of prototype fabrication,
touch up/rework, etc.)

[Note I am not worried about solder *paste* -- I buy that
as needed]

I figure I will need enough for ~500 (smallish) prototypes
(several square inches of PCB, components both sides) plus
miscellaneous wiring, cables, etc.

And, the sorts of things anyone "electrically/electronically
inclined" encounters in day-to-day living (repairing
appliances, TVs, etc.)

In addition to 0.028" and 0.015" 60/40 wire, recent experience
suggests I purchase some larger diameter (0.062"?) for those uses
that eat gobs of wire per connection (i.e., when you'd be
feeding half a foot just for *one* connection!)

Suggestions as to how much of which sizes? And, is this truly
a commodity product (cost being the only issue) or are there
vendors to avoid/favor? (I've tended towards kester over the
years -- but for no "real reason")

Digikey? Or, "anyplace local" (taxes vs. shipping fees)?
Figure ~$30-40/pound for anything "non-esoteric"?


More like close to fifty bucks for the good stuff. Ouch, ouch.

And yeah, it's commodity products. Kester makes a leaded no-clean in
0.062" but personally I haven't used their 8817 yet (well, maybe at
clients without realizing it):

http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?vendor=0&keywords=KE1399-ND

Do NOT use "no-clean" as it (1) needs cleaning, and (2) makes for
more problems than any other formulation.

AFAICT "no clean" flux for leaded alloys is just good old rosin flux.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

I understand that "no clean" is definitely has little of no rosin
(which does require cleaning to keep your violin bow sticky), and has an
undisclosed mix of "activators" like organic acids, pH buffers (to
manage acidity), de-oxidizers, and Kester knows what else.
Tends to keep working if not removed.
At least rosin is fairly inactive at STP.

 

[Don Y]

Hi John,

Nope, it's built into an actual CD case! I must try to dig it out and
post a picture.

Wait. You mean a "jewel case"?? I.e., the clear plastic case in
which *recorded* CD media are sold? Like 2-3mm thick x 100mm square?

Is it a "low volume" product (hard to imagine that!) and
the manufacturer just found a clever way of getting a plastic
enclosure without having to pay for custom tooling?

I think mere possession of "drug paraphernalia" is seriously illegal in
the USA (variations by states I imagine). UK too for all I know...

The problem lies with multipurpose devices: is a scale "drug
paraphenalia"? What about lighters and matches? Are "hobos"
subject to arrest for using "rolling papers" to roll their own
(tobacco) cigarettes?

Obviously, a tablet press has very specific uses. Though it
technically could be used for creating effervescent tablets
("fizzies"), compressing fertilizer into "cakes" (e.g., for
use *in* irrigation systems), veterinary medicine, etc.

Solution: don't buy a tablet press! :>

 

[John Devereux]

Hi John,



Wait. You mean a "jewel case"?? I.e., the clear plastic case in
which *recorded* CD media are sold? Like 2-3mm thick x 100mm square?

Yes, exactly. But they are more like 10mm thick, 140x125.

Is it a "low volume" product (hard to imagine that!) and
the manufacturer just found a clever way of getting a plastic
enclosure without having to pay for custom tooling?

Can't believe it was hobbiest-level low volume. Looked well made, was
not that expensive, $20 maybe?

Just had a look, can't find it. Perhaps it's in my CD collection
somewhere it had a plausible looking "album cover" sheet.

Oh look, there's loads of them:

<http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/On-Balanc..._Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item3cbf99788b>

a "novelty set" of scales.

Anyway, just like those.

The problem lies with multipurpose devices: is a scale "drug
paraphenalia"? What about lighters and matches? Are "hobos"
subject to arrest for using "rolling papers" to roll their own
(tobacco) cigarettes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_paraphernalia

"Small mirrors and other glass products (such as Pyrex test tubes and
"glass crack pipes"), lighters, rolled up currency, razor blades,
aluminum/tin foil, credit cards, and spoons have all been used to
prosecute people under paraphernalia laws, whether or not they contain
residue of illegal drugs."

 

[Charlie E.]

I went salt and pepper by that age. About the same time ago. My mom was
nearly white by age 25, and her mom was white by age 16.

?-)

In my family, we don't go gray. The hairline just keeps receeding
slowly, and it thins out a bit...

 

[Don Y]

Hi John,

[scales]

Wait. You mean a "jewel case"?? I.e., the clear plastic case in
which *recorded* CD media are sold? Like 2-3mm thick x 100mm square?

Yes, exactly. But they are more like 10mm thick, 140x125.

OK, the cases I use are closer to 3mm but I understand what you
mean.

Can't believe it was hobbiest-level low volume. Looked well made, was
not that expensive, $20 maybe?

Just had a look, can't find it. Perhaps it's in my CD collection
somewhere it had a plausible looking "album cover" sheet.
Hmmm....

Oh look, there's loads of them:
a "novelty set" of scales.
Anyway, just like those.

So, obviously intended to be *hidden*/unobtrusive. Which, of course,
suggests some nefarious intent...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_paraphernalia

"Small mirrors and other glass products (such as Pyrex test tubes and
"glass crack pipes"), lighters, rolled up currency, razor blades,
aluminum/tin foil, credit cards, and spoons have all been used to
prosecute people under paraphernalia laws, whether or not they contain
residue of illegal drugs."

<frown>

I had a rent-a-cop approach me at a mall and politely *demand*
that I remove my bandana from my head: "guys in the local gangs
use them to signal their gang affiliation" (recall my comments
about my actual age, graying hair, etc.??) I just stared in
disbelief replying, "yeah, and I'm told the girls that run
with them all wear BRAS..." -- but, he wasn't quick enough to
understand the reference.

I figured if they have a bad enough problem with gangs, I don't
need to shop there -- and departed!

[I should go back and see if they've taken my suggestion and
implemented a strict NO BRAS policy in the years since then!! :-/ ]

 

[sms]

sms wrote:

[...]

I'd just get Kester 63/37 in several sizes. The savings in buying a
no-name solder are minimal. Check craigslist too. In my area someone is
selling new rolls of Kester 63/37 solder for $15/pound in 0.015 and
0.062 diameters.

Careful. Those probably vanished at a local business. Or fell of a truck.

Judging from the date code, that's visible in the photo, it's new old
stock. Probably came from some company that folded and sold off their
stockroom. <http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/ele/3964867403.html>.

Somehow I don't think that there's a big market for stolen solder, but I
could be wrong.

 

[Joerg]

sms wrote:

[...]

I'd just get Kester 63/37 in several sizes. The savings in buying a
no-name solder are minimal. Check craigslist too. In my area someone is
selling new rolls of Kester 63/37 solder for $15/pound in 0.015 and
0.062 diameters.

Careful. Those probably vanished at a local business. Or fell of a truck.

Judging from the date code, that's visible in the photo, it's new old
stock. Probably came from some company that folded and sold off their
stockroom. <http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/ele/3964867403.html>.

Somehow I don't think that there's a big market for stolen solder, but I
could be wrong.

1 lbs 0.015" Kester No-Clean for fifteen bucks sure is a deal.

 

[Robert Baer]

Hi John,



Wait. You mean a "jewel case"?? I.e., the clear plastic case in
which *recorded* CD media are sold? Like 2-3mm thick x 100mm square?

Is it a "low volume" product (hard to imagine that!) and
the manufacturer just found a clever way of getting a plastic
enclosure without having to pay for custom tooling?


The problem lies with multipurpose devices: is a scale "drug
paraphenalia"? What about lighters and matches? Are "hobos"
subject to arrest for using "rolling papers" to roll their own
(tobacco) cigarettes?

* Each and every item can be cited and used as evidence against you at
any time.

Obviously, a tablet press has very specific uses. Though it
technically could be used for creating effervescent tablets
("fizzies"), compressing fertilizer into "cakes" (e.g., for
use *in* irrigation systems), veterinary medicine, etc.

* Oh, now we are not only making illegal drugs, we are also making
terrorist bombs and poisoning animals..
Consecutive jail terms add up to a few hundred years. When in jail,
sue for specific performance for long life..

Solution: don't buy a tablet press! :>

No, do not buy ANYTHING!

 

[Don Y]

Hi Jon,

We had one of those motorized ice cream makers with the aluminum
container and plastic paddles inside. I got a cooling unit from
a junked spectrophotometer, and made a coil that goes inside the
ice/salt container. I fill the container with re-usable brine,
and don;'t have to do the hassle with ice and salt. If you do more
than one batch, it goes really fast, once the brine is chilled.

There are semi-commercial units with built in refrigeration
available. But, they take up a lot of room. E.g., the size
of a (VERY) *large* microwave oven.

You can also "still freeze" the cream mix -- but it's a bit
more tedious and doesn't work as good with, e.g., fruit
flavored creams (wary of ice crystals). You also end up
with a "heavier" finished product as there is much less
air whipped in during the process. (You can compensate for
this, a little, with more eggs, etc.)

As a result, I have been gravitating away from the fruity creams,
sorbets, granitas, etc. to treats that aren't as fussy about how
they are frozen.

Of course, the fact that a batch (~3 pints) seldom lasts more than
24 hours means you can largely ignore the finer fabrication points!
:>

 

[Don Y]

Hi,

In addition to 0.028" and 0.015" 60/40 wire, recent experience
suggests I purchase some larger diameter (0.062"?) for those uses
that eat gobs of wire per connection (i.e., when you'd be
feeding half a foot just for *one* connection!)

Suggestions as to how much of which sizes? And, is this truly
a commodity product (cost being the only issue) or are there
vendors to avoid/favor? (I've tended towards kester over the
years -- but for no "real reason")

Digikey? Or, "anyplace local" (taxes vs. shipping fees)?
Figure ~$30-40/pound for anything "non-esoteric"?

Just an update...

I dropped by *the* (only!) "electronics supplier" in town, today.
Expected to find "price gouging" to the extreme!

Was very surprised to see solder prices almost $20/lb *cheaper*
than Digikey's current prices! E.g., $30/lb for some 0.040
60/40 RA Kester. Yeah, had to pay the *city* tax (Digikey only
charges the "state" portion of the taxes, IIRC) but that was
just $1. And, didn't have to pay for shipping (or *wait* the
better part of a week to have it!)

I will be a bit more careful about trusting Digikey's prices
henceforth :-/